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Old 12-05-2012, 10:43 PM   #21
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The RAV4 EV starts at 50k http://www.toyota.com/rav4ev/index.html
I'll consider these cars affordable when you can get the same range as a normal gas car (300 miles-ish) in a base model car that costs $18k.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:46 PM   #22
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I'll consider these cars affordable when you can get the same range as a normal gas car (300 miles-ish) in a base model car that costs $18k.
I'll see you in the year 2065
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:12 AM   #23
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Did anyone already mention the battery packs you'll have to replace every 5 years?
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:13 AM   #24
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Did anyone already mention the battery packs you'll have to replace every 5 years?
[citation needed]
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:24 AM   #25
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Did anyone already mention the battery packs you'll have to replace every 5 years?
You must not have watched the video.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:39 AM   #26
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You must not have watched the video.
I have. And I bet Tesla owners will experience capacity loss long before those 8 years are up. Most likely that would labeled wear & tear and therefore not covered.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:46 AM   #27
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I would imagine they use pretty much the same 18650 Li-Ion cells that you find in a laptop battery. From my experience, a good quality Sanyo laptop battery pack under normal use had about 40% of its capacity after 3 years and just couldn't deliver capacity or power-wise. In general, it is not uncommon for Lithium Ion batteries to degrade 2 years from the date of manufacture, regardless of use. It's simply due to corrosion and chemical breakdown in the cell and I don't see how the Tesla batteries would be exempt. The life can be extended by careful charge routines, proper cooling, min/max voltage limits and cell balancing, but yes, much less than 8 years. The crappy thing is that performance will diminish gradually so it's not so easy to tell when you aren't getting the most out of your car.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:51 AM   #28
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The industry consensus is that cells reach EOL when they only operate at 80% of their designed capacity.

No body knows what Tesla will do in 3, 5, 8, or 10 years. The battery packs may be covered by warranty, some sort of insurance, or just the owners. These are expensive cars, and unless they depreciate like crazy, they will have affluent owners. Maybe tesla will offer financing? idk

They could also use new, cheaper, better battery technology in a new "sled" so its not just new batteries, but newer better cheaper batteries.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:19 AM   #29
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The way I see it, in 5 years batteries will be much more advanced AND cheaper, you could potentially go with an aftermarket solution, it will be the new modding, instead of a supercharger you get a more powerful battery
On another note, Volvo is releasing its first self driving car to the market in 2014 and by 2020 they expect all of their cars to be self driving. The future is exciting.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:22 AM   #30
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Guess I'll never be buying a Volvo then.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:06 AM   #31
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Guess I'll never be buying a Volvo then.
werd

I've already used a self-driving car, it's called a taxi.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:08 AM   #32
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On another note, Volvo is releasing its first self driving car to the market in 2014 and by 2020 they expect all of their cars to be self driving. The future getting lazy.
Fixt.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:26 PM   #33
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I imagine the system could be turned off at any point, just imagine the car driving you home when you get drunk, no need for a Taxi, no need to ask friends to drive your drunk annoying ass home. Or when you're on a long road trip, feeling sleepy? Turn on auto driving. I think it would be great to have it as an OPTION.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:48 PM   #34
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On another note, Volvo is releasing its first self driving car to the market in 2014 and by 2020 they expect all of their cars to be self driving. The future is exciting.
Do you believe this time frame? Understand the infrastructure that would be required in a matter of a few years to make the system functional.

By Volvo's definition, a self driving car probably means it can parallel park itself
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:34 PM   #35
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Do you believe this time frame? Understand the infrastructure that would be required in a matter of a few years to make the system functional.

By Volvo's definition, a self driving car probably means it can parallel park itself
All you need is GPS, sensors on the car and optionally a 4G connection, no need to update the infrastructure. Google has self driving cars that have been cruising around for years now and done 300k miles without any major incidents.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:01 PM   #36
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:06 PM   #37
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LOL @ comparing the Ford to the BMW. The buyer of one rarely cross shops (..nor cares to cross shop) the other. It is widely known that faster cars can be had for less than the price of an M3. I don't think any of us M3 owners purchased the car to be the fastest on the road, did we?
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:24 PM   #38
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LOL @ comparing the Ford to the BMW. The buyer of one rarely cross shops (..nor cares to cross shop) the other. It is widely known that faster cars can be had for less than the price of an M3. I don't think any of us M3 owners purchased the car to be the fastest on the road, did we?
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ance+or+status

about 79%
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:40 PM   #39
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WE are not indicative of M3 owners in general. We are but a small forum that caters to a niche type of individual.

...and I never said that performance wasn't a consideration. Being car guys, we know what our options are AND we know where we can spend our money if we want the fastest thing that OUR money can buy. Somebody that spends $60k+ on an M3 surely knows about other cars within - or well below - the price range. Buying an M3 isn't an absent minded purchase (..the exception being situations in which mommy/daddy purchased their 18-20 year old kid an M3).

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