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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Gun Talk

Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 12-09-2012, 02:06 AM   #681
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Is that an A.R.M.S. #22M68 mount with that Aimpoint?
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:26 AM   #682
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Is that an A.R.M.S. #22M68 mount with that Aimpoint?
Yes it is the #22M68
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:26 PM   #683
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Have you ever considered getting a better mount, like a LaRue or ADM?
Are you aware of the issues with ARMS mounts at all?
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:34 PM   #684
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Have you ever considered getting a better mount, like a LaRue or ADM?
Are you aware of the issues with ARMS mounts at all?
Lever issues that people speak of? I have owned it for four years and never had any problems with it.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:49 PM   #685
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:26 PM   #686
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Lever issues that people speak of? I have owned it for four years and never had any problems with it.
Yeah, the roll pin breaking and lever popping off. I've seen it happen, and have talked to people who have had it happen to them as well. There's a reason why ARMS is losing all of their military contracts. Dick Swan, the owner of ARMS, is suing, or has sued, several companies as a way to recoup lost revenue. Dick Swan is a litigation-happy slimeball anyways, so I will never again own anything from his company.

If you want to read something interesting, read this thread (if you haven't already):
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/179975_.html
There's another professional forum where there is extensive talk about all the problems people have with ARMS mounts.

You can obviously do whatever you want, and if you don't do more than just casual range trips, you're probably not going to have too many issues. If you ever decide to take some intensive training (TRICON, EAG, HSP, etc), I would highly recommend that you look into a better mount. Food for thought in the future if you are looking for upgrade options. If you contact those groups, they all have pretty good first-hand trainer information on why ARMS mounts are suboptimal.
SureFire is a good example of why ARMS mounts are junk. Long story short, SF was doing a lot of warranty repair work for SWAT teams and military units due to broken levers. They had so many issues with broken levers, and with ARMS refusing to rectify the problem, that they developed their own proprietary QD lever mount and phased out the ARMS lever versions.

Please don't misunderstand why I'm saying this. I'm not trying to tell you what to do; I'm just trying to offer advice based on my own experience and knowledge. Just offering a different perspective.
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Last edited by Reedo302; 12-09-2012 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:36 AM   #687
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Picture from the USASOC Sniper Competition.

LaRue Hotness...


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Old 12-10-2012, 10:46 AM   #688
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The beauty of that is how simple and clean it looks...

How do semi guns like this platform stand up to bolt guns now? For yers they couldn't hang...have they reached the point of being as good or better now? Have they made the bolt gun obsolete?
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:11 PM   #689
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The USASOC Sniper Comp is geared towards combat conditions, and the for at least the last three years, semi-autos have dominated the competition over bold actions. The past two years have been won by LaRue OBRs, and I believe this year was also won by guys running LaRue OBRs. The M110 and Mk11 rifles perform very well in most portions, but the outright accuracy of rifles like the OBR and other custom .308 ARs is hard to beat. .308 ARs are printing equal accuracy to the M24 and M40 bolt guns, but they have a much faster rate of fire with a higher magazine capacity. For military applications on the battlefield, the .308 bolt gun is pretty much obsolete.
It's for this reason that the Army is transitioning all M24s over to .300 Win Mag or .338 Lapua, and the USMC is going to be moving away from the M40 and going to the Mk13 .300 Win Mag rifles. For the extreme long range game, bolt guns still rule, but they have to be in the heavier magnum calibers.

In civilian competitions, bolt guns are still the big winners, but nearly everyone winning is using a .260/6.5mm cartridge. .308 rifles are pretty much obsolete in civilian competitions, unless they're an action/steel challenge type comp.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:00 PM   #690
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I wouldn't say its done,but at last it can be fired: Olympic Arms Preban lower,Vltor MUR-1 upper,Failzero BCG and hammer,Daniel Defence 16" midlength chf 1/7 barrel,DD Lite 14" rail,YHM flash hider,Troy Tritium BUIS,Raptor CH,Magpul ACS-L Mil stock,and AFG,Hogue grip,BAD ambi safety. I can't wait to shoot it.

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sent from my ATARI sc1224
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:09 PM   #691
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How do you like the ACS-L?
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:40 PM   #692
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The USASOC Sniper Comp is geared towards combat conditions, and the for at least the last three years, semi-autos have dominated the competition over bold actions. The past two years have been won by LaRue OBRs, and I believe this year was also won by guys running LaRue OBRs. The M110 and Mk11 rifles perform very well in most portions, but the outright accuracy of rifles like the OBR and other custom .308 ARs is hard to beat. .308 ARs are printing equal accuracy to the M24 and M40 bolt guns, but they have a much faster rate of fire with a higher magazine capacity. For military applications on the battlefield, the .308 bolt gun is pretty much obsolete.
It's for this reason that the Army is transitioning all M24s over to .300 Win Mag or .338 Lapua, and the USMC is going to be moving away from the M40 and going to the Mk13 .300 Win Mag rifles. For the extreme long range game, bolt guns still rule, but they have to be in the heavier magnum calibers.

In civilian competitions, bolt guns are still the big winners, but nearly everyone winning is using a .260/6.5mm cartridge. .308 rifles are pretty much obsolete in civilian competitions, unless they're an action/steel challenge type comp.
For years I wavered on caliber choice as far as what I wanted to look for in a precision bolt gun, but I basically had narrowed it to .308, 30.06, and .300 winmag. I honestly don't know too much about the .260/6.5mm cartridge.

I personally decided that I'd set my sights on one in .300 winmag, the primary reason being that I felt that the .308 platform was transitioning away from bolt to SA battle rifles. I guess I was right. And I'm not surprised to hear that they are performing as well as they are and that they're replacing the bolt guns on the battlefield, at least in .308.

I'm tempted to build one myself, but its a tossup. I could build a really nice SA .308, but I would probably be in the $5000-6000 range with optics by the end of it i think. At that rate, I'm into new or very nearly new Accuracy International bolt money and I think that's where I'd rather spend it, though probably a bit foolish.

Quote:
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I wouldn't say its done,but at last it can be fired: Olympic Arms Preban lower,Vltor MUR-1 upper,Failzero BCG and hammer,Daniel Defence 16" midlength chf 1/7 barrel,DD Lite 14" rail,YHM flash hider,Troy Tritium BUIS,Raptor CH,Magpul ACS-L Mil stock,and AFG,Hogue grip,BAD ambi safety. I can't wait to shoot it.

Attachment 481611Attachment 481612Attachment 481613

sent from my ATARI sc1224
That looks great! Hopefully I'll start work on my NY fun gun soon...I have to secure a pre-ban receiver first. Looking at PWA at the moment.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:07 PM   #693
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How do you like the ACS-L?
I had a CTR on it first,and it seemed so small and light with the 14" rail on the other end of the gun. The ACS L is the the perfect fix. It has a great fit and the friction lock works very well. I like that the cheek weld seems wider than the CTR. Also I had put the enhanced butt pad on it but that was overkill and went back to the original pad. For around $100 you can't go wrong. I just need to find out what I can put in the compartment.

sent from my ATARI sc1224
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:49 PM   #694
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For years I wavered on caliber choice as far as what I wanted to look for in a precision bolt gun, but I basically had narrowed it to .308, 30.06, and .300 winmag. I honestly don't know too much about the .260/6.5mm cartridge.

I personally decided that I'd set my sights on one in .300 winmag, the primary reason being that I felt that the .308 platform was transitioning away from bolt to SA battle rifles. I guess I was right. And I'm not surprised to hear that they are performing as well as they are and that they're replacing the bolt guns on the battlefield, at least in .308.

I'm tempted to build one myself, but its a tossup. I could build a really nice SA .308, but I would probably be in the $5000-6000 range with optics by the end of it i think. At that rate, I'm into new or very nearly new Accuracy International bolt money and I think that's where I'd rather spend it, though probably a bit foolish.
The 6.5mm cartridges are all based on a .308win case necked down to a 6.5mm bullet. There are just different dimensions for the case. The main four cartridges that are being used are .260Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x47 Lapua and 6.5x284. If you want a bolt rifle and don't plan on going beyond 1200yds, I would recommend going with a 6.5mm bullet class. .260Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor are are the most commercially available. These loads have less recoil than .308, but they have a higher ballistic coefficient due to a much longer bullet design. The trajectory of a 6.5 out to 1000yds is around an 8 mRad drop (66" drop), while a 175gr .308 will be around 11 mRad (99" drop). The trajectory is actually flatter than the 190gr .300 Win Mag out to 1000yds. 6.5s also don't burn out the barrel very fast. .300WM are known to burn out barrels at around 1500-2000 rds, depending on barrel construction.
I read a report a while back where it was pointed out that if you wanted a magnum long range caliber, you were better off with the .338 Lapua. The barrels last nearly twice as long as the .300WM, and you have a better trajectory. Ammo is a more expensive, but if you handload/reload, it's about the same cost.

If you are looking at a .308 on a high end gun, you're almost better off looking at a semi-auto.
That, or consider a modular bolt action like a DTA SRS. You can get it in .260 or 6.5, maybe get another .308 or other caliber if you want, and then get a conversion kit for .300WM and .338LM. I am likely going to be picking up a DTA SRS down the line so I can have a .260 and a .338LM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:04 PM   #695
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ill just leave this here
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:29 PM   #696
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i see you found tailo's gun room...
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:50 PM   #697
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ill just leave this here
Sweet baby Jesus...I am not worthy...
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:12 AM   #698
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i see you found tailo's gun room...
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:11 AM   #699
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Posted this in the Secret Santa thread, but I wasn't sure who did or did not see it.

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Old 12-12-2012, 09:17 AM   #700
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damn.... I have the gun itch again... What's next?
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