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Old 12-10-2012, 03:47 PM   #21
rohde88
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Sorry, you're right. I meant throttle and brakes. I think they are all tied to throttle and brakes.
some traction control is just a fuel cut.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:48 PM   #22
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some traction control is just a fuel cut.
True as well, I'd say this is the case for most vehicles. Throttle cable cars would take too long to "cut"...fuel is a much faster way. DBW is probably different though.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:49 PM   #23
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True as well, I'd say this is the case for most vehicles. Throttle cable cars would take too long to "cut"...fuel is a much faster way. DBW is probably different though.
Yep, spark cut is often used.

I think only a percentage of cars are DBW right now (increasing, but still small).
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:57 PM   #24
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It's true, I wasn't specific about traction control versus stability control. Stability would be best, but I guess I've got some homework to do.

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Why would this be a determining factor in a car purchase?
Buying a car for a teenage/new driver... just wanting to include safety precautions in the equation.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #25
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It's true, I wasn't specific about traction control versus active control. Active would be best, but I guess I've got some homework to do.



Buying a car for a teenage/new driver... just wanting to include safety precautions in the equation.
New driver? Buy something relatively large, safe, and slow. Traction control is completely useless if someone is driving around like a maniac. A 4 banger accord is an excellent first car. A subaru is nice as well if you want the security of AWD.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:59 PM   #26
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This fool is running a Honda S2000
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:03 PM   #27
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This fool is running a Honda S2000
I got 100K under the hood brah. You jelly?
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:05 PM   #28
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It's true, I wasn't specific about traction control versus stability control. Stability would be best, but I guess I've got some homework to do.

Buying a car for a teenage/new driver... just wanting to include safety precautions in the equation.
Look into the Tire Rack Teen Street Survival program. They run a one day session where the kid learns some basics in a classroom, then they go out to a skidpad or autox type location and learn what the abs feels like, how to threshold brake, what an emergency lane change fees like, all in their own car. Then they put you on a wet skidpad and have the kids try to make figure 8's and control the understeer. They do more stuff too but I can't remember. The program is cheap, quick, fun, and educational. It can also bring your insurance down.

Personally I think driver education and experience is much more valuable than having the right stability control.

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New driver? Buy something relatively large, safe, and slow. Traction control is completely useless if someone is driving around like a maniac. A 4 banger accord is an excellent first car. A subaru is nice as well if you want the security of AWD.
I wouldn't want a large car as a first car Its just that much more mass to deal with, and a bigger thing to control and keep on the road.

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This fool is running a Honda S2000
What's wrong with an S2000? It's like a cheaper, more reliable, and more hardcore version of an M3.

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I got 100K under the hood brah. You jelly?
GhostFlame's avatar says HPF....

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Old 12-10-2012, 04:07 PM   #29
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New driver? Buy something relatively large, safe, and slow. Traction control is completely useless if someone is driving around like a maniac. A 4 banger accord is an excellent first car. A subaru is nice as well if you want the security of AWD.
Yes, I'm considering all factors, but this is the only one I didn't know off the top of my head. At the time I bought a new E46, stability control was only on about 12% of cars IIRC. I know the Mini has it, and I was just wondering what other (non-sports) cars have it nowadays.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:11 PM   #30
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What's wrong with an S2000? It's like a cheaper, more reliable, and more hardcore version of an M3.

GhostFlame's avatar says HPF....
nobody likes the tuna here
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:15 PM   #31
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Look into the Tire Rack Teen Street Survival program. They run a one day session where the kid learns some basics in a classroom, then they go out to a skidpad or autox type location and learn what the abs feels like, how to threshold brake, what an emergency lane change fees like, all in their own car. Then they put you on a wet skidpad and have the kids try to make figure 8's and control the understeer. They do more stuff too but I can't remember. The program is cheap, quick, fun, and educational. It can also bring your insurance down.

Personally I think driver education and experience is much more valuable than having the right stability control.
Yes, I'm a big fan of the Teen Survival Program. In the Bay Area, our CCA runs a similar Car Control Clinic, which may have been the precursor to Tire Rack's program. I'm very familiar with it. My wife has done it and she's a great driver, but at the end of the rainy day I still enjoy the extra peace of mind that DSC on her car provides. All other factors accounted for, I would also like the same extra bit of safety technology for my kid.

Quote:
I wouldn't want a large car as a first car Its just that much more mass to deal with, and a bigger thing to control and keep on the road.
Of all the things NFR mentioned, large is the only thing I disagree with. It's a trade off though... momentum works both ways.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:27 PM   #32
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:44 PM   #33
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Yes, I'm a big fan of the Teen Survival Program. In the Bay Area, our CCA runs a similar Car Control Clinic, which may have been the precursor to Tire Rack's program. I'm very familiar with it. My wife has done it and she's a great driver, but at the end of the rainy day I still enjoy the extra peace of mind that DSC on her car provides. All other factors accounted for, I would also like the same extra bit of safety technology for my kid.



Of all the things NFR mentioned, large is the only thing I disagree with. It's a trade off though... momentum works both ways.
By large, I didn't mean a Tahoe or a Crown Vic. I think a Camry or Accord is a perfectly fine first car.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:52 PM   #34
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I was under the impression that it is nothing more than software. traction control on all cars is essentially the same. Computer tied to the brakes. The programming of the system is what's different. In BMW/Ferrari/Porsche, etc terms, dynamic means the system can have "levels" of intervention. On Ferraris, the software has 5 programs, (Race, Sport, Snow, etc.) Each one will let you get into a little more trouble before stepping in. Cars like Camry's have a "single program" system that is either ON or OFF.

With the exception of M cars, I was not aware BMW offered this on their regular models. I always thought it was also ON or OFF.
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actually a lot of traction control systems are tied to throttle and will close it off if you lose traction.
On the non-M E46 you have half off, where I believe it just the stability control off and leaves higher intervention traction control on.

But for example in E36s the traction control is controlled by an extra "throttle body" that shuts to "reduce slippage"

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Originally Posted by rohde88 View Post
Traction control only affects the drive wheels. Stability control incoporates braking (including non drive wheels)

More complicated stability control programs will change suspension settings as well.
This.

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Of all the things NFR mentioned, large is the only thing I disagree with. It's a trade off though... momentum works both ways.
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An e46
E39 (post 2000) or E46. A 325, 330, 525, 528, or 530 all will offer DSC, HPS and loads of safety. If it's automatic they aren't really quick at all either.

If it's a 528 make sure it's a 2000, otherwise it'll just have the awful ASC (traction control) like the E36.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:28 PM   #35
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DSC is usually tied to traction control. Most have traction however dynamic stability control is what helps to keep you on your intended path ( helps prevent over or under steer) traction control on most new cars takes power away from the slipping wheel and will keep taking power away until you catch your grip or turn the traction control off.
Subaru makes a great AWD and Mazda makes and excellent DSC car on the 3 and 6 as well as pairing it with TSC.
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