E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-12-2012, 09:27 AM   #1
bagher
Registered User
 
bagher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 17,851
My Ride: Neocon outrage
Send a message via AIM to bagher Send a message via Skype™ to bagher
insane military perk spending

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/12/7_ab...payer_dollars/
__________________
** Removed - Tim330i **
bagher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 09:32 AM   #2
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,310
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
can I get another pop-up ad off that site?
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 09:32 AM   #3
bagher
Registered User
 
bagher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 17,851
My Ride: Neocon outrage
Send a message via AIM to bagher Send a message via Skype™ to bagher
I had zero. Learn to adblock.
__________________
** Removed - Tim330i **
bagher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 09:37 AM   #4
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,310
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
two got past my adblock. My jimmies are rustled.
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 09:38 AM   #5
bagher
Registered User
 
bagher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 17,851
My Ride: Neocon outrage
Send a message via AIM to bagher Send a message via Skype™ to bagher
shed no tears
__________________
** Removed - Tim330i **
bagher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 09:49 AM   #6
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Glad my tax dollars are making some people happy.
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 09:50 AM   #7
330iPilot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 577
My Ride: Titanium Silver 330i
If it is happening at this alarming rate it needs to be stopped. But I saw absolutely zero evidence to back up the author's claims. I have no dout that there is some abuse. But is it as rampant as the author suggests?
330iPilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 10:42 AM   #8
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 100
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by 330iPilot View Post
If it is happening at this alarming rate it needs to be stopped. But I saw absolutely zero evidence to back up the author's claims. I have no dout that there is some abuse. But is it as rampant as the author suggests?
Or any less rampant than Repubs/conservatives assert to be the case with social and other non-military government programs (many of which operate at far lower operational overhead margins than private sector equivalents)?

I think these assertions/aspersions are way too often thrown out there as fact when in fact, the facts aren't there to necessarily support them.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 11:20 AM   #9
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhumb View Post
Or any less rampant than Repubs/conservatives assert to be the case with social and other non-military government programs (many of which operate at far lower operational overhead margins than private sector equivalents)?

I think these assertions/aspersions are way too often thrown out there as fact when in fact, the facts aren't there to necessarily support them.
I'll look around for supporting facts later. Curious myself. But look at government districts and groups having their so called meetings in lavish and expensive locations. This type of conduct and leisure should not be allowed for government employees especially when it's frowned upon for corporations in the free enterprise.

An example is the 9th circuit court of appeals from CA holding it's "conference" in Hawaii. The bill was supposedly around $1 million for the trip. Most corporations don't even have that amount of freed up money to spend.
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."

Last edited by bimmerfan08; 12-12-2012 at 11:20 AM.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 11:44 AM   #10
Raymond42262
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The South
Posts: 453
My Ride: Is German
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post

An example is the 9th circuit court of appeals from CA holding it's "conference" in Hawaii. The bill was supposedly around $1 million for the trip. Most corporations don't even have that amount of freed up money to spend.
I heard about that, but I am not going to research it.

However, it does not sound unreasonable to me.

When you deal with govt agencies, you have districts, much like the 9th district court of appeals.


I am assuming Hawaii is in the district. It is not unusual or uncommon to have quarterly or annual meetings to update members on new trends, regulations etc....and have an opportunity to meet everyone you have been messaging and emailing for the last year.


Whenever you have the meetings, it requires a lot of planning and coordination which is done in addition to your regular work responsibilities. You often take turns scheduling events. So if the 9th district of appeals covers Los Angeles, then it is held in LA one year. San Diego next year... Las Vegas...and eventually Hawaii.

See ?

It is not as bad as it seems. If that is the case, it's not a big deal to me.
__________________
"The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, someone to love, and something to hope for."....Joseph Addison
--------------------
Raymond42262 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 11:56 AM   #11
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond42262 View Post
I heard about that, but I am not going to research it.

However, it does not sound unreasonable to me.

When you deal with govt agencies, you have districts, much like the 9th district court of appeals.


I am assuming Hawaii is in the district. It is not unusual or uncommon to have quarterly or annual meetings to update members on new trends, regulations etc....and have an opportunity to meet everyone you have been messaging and emailing for the last year.


Whenever you have the meetings, it requires a lot of planning and coordination which is done in addition to your regular work responsibilities. You often take turns scheduling events. So if the 9th district of appeals covers Los Angeles, then it is held in LA one year. San Diego next year... Las Vegas...and eventually Hawaii.

See ?

It is not as bad as it seems. If that is the case, it's not a big deal to me.
That's not so bad, it was the projected and perhaps at this point factual cost.
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 12:01 PM   #12
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 100
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
Yeah, not saying that some degree of waste, fraud and abuse doesn't occur, it most certainly does as you quite well point out. It's the overall functioning though that I think becomes most relevant rather than individual tales of woe. Is, say, Medicare more or less efficient than private insurance companies in providing end services to patients? Some studies (and I'll admit to not having sources readily available) have found Medicare overhead rates to be far less than private insurers, something to the tune of 5% vs 20% or something of similar scale.

Trouble with this type of analysis is that it is often an apples and oranges type thing as most private companies can be measured in terms of profits earned vs. resources put in. Many or most government agencies and activities by their very nature are not profit-earning enterprises and, indeed, are often fill roles in society that are inherently unprofitable, at least in direct and immediate terms. Were you to rate the Air Force in those terms, profitability? It would be considered an abject failure and immense waste of money. Of course, though, its benefits to our society are there, if far less direct and concretely and amenable to measurement (how do you measure "security"?), and I am glad we have a good Air Force.

Likewise, I think many other government programs are taken very much for granted and would only be fully appreciated in their absence. It is difficult to measure or appreciate what doesn't happen, which is often the role of government agencies, to make sure bad things don't occur. Yes, the rules and standards of the EPA do represent a burden upon many private enterprise's energies, resources and yes, profits. However, would you prefer, rather, that the air quality of our cities resemble that of Beijing with its surrounding industries unfettered by bothersome emissions standards? Or of many of our own large cities 40+ years ago?

This is not to say I'm defending each and every agencies, law or regulation, hardly, but conversely, I think too many government entities and activities are dismissed to readily out of hand rather than looking at them with a higher and more discerning degree of scrutiny. Any human activity can be improved, including both those in the private and public sectors, but that improvement needs to be done constructively, towards a better overall end rather than destructively, to simply tear down what one might not like ideologically.

I think both our major political parties have been to ideological in this regard - Republicans reflexively dismissing any and all (non-military) government endeavors while Democrats reflexively defend such endeavors with neither party giving them the proper scrutiny.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 12:05 PM   #13
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
I don't care for Salon. They were practically sucking Obama's nuts during the election. I found it to be obnoxious.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 12:24 PM   #14
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 100
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
PS I live near the Pentagon, with its almost continuous helicopter traffic. I often joke tongue-in-check when one goes by that "There's another general coming back from a golf outing." Little did I realize how close to the truth my little quip might actually be.

I think that, as the article alludes to, that the broader issue is less the military per se but rather, an entitled, coddled and insular "1%" in our society that is creating real problems for our society in general, whether in the private, public or military realms.

Republican's in the past election often castigated Dems for raising class warfare when in fact, the Dems may simply have only had the temerity to have been calling out a class warfare that does, and has, existed for some time and one the 1% have been winning splendidly, often at great cost to the rest of our society.

Perhaps the elite at all quarters of our society should not be so coddled, deferred to or protected but rather, held to the same standards - no better, no worse -- as the least of us.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 01:28 PM   #15
Raymond42262
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The South
Posts: 453
My Ride: Is German
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
That's not so bad, it was the projected and perhaps at this point factual cost.
True. It sounds unreasonable.

But.....1m is not so much if you have 200, 300 attendees and you have to pay for their plane fare and hotel rooms for a week.

The argument can be made to send the HawaII people to the states, but that would be unfair to them to do that every year, especially if they have to plan it.

I am sure the costs are much cheaper elsewhere so the cost per event over 3,4 years might average out to a more reasonable 500k, 600k or 700k.

Hey............1M does not go as far as it used too.

It looks like a lot on paper, but that is the cost of doing business.
__________________
"The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, someone to love, and something to hope for."....Joseph Addison
--------------------
Raymond42262 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 01:29 PM   #16
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Patraeus had his staff prepare freshly sliced pineapples before bed time and give him water at precise intervals when he was out running.

So the news reports.

Quote:
Petraeus' no-nonsense military style and some idiosyncrasies rubbed some CIA managers the wrong way. In May, a leaked CIA cable disclosed that when Petraeus traveled overseas, he wanted fresh pineapple every night before bed, sliced bananas atop his cereal in the morning and predesigned morning runs that avoided intersections.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov...ign-20121110/2

Last edited by MDydinanM; 12-12-2012 at 02:50 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 10:24 PM   #17
vilseck21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In La La Land
Posts: 236
My Ride: B_Cryus's mother
What the article does not say about the MWR Golf courses, is that the courses are funded 100% by the military through BX/PX, AAFES, NEX and Commisary profits. Not one cent of NAF funds comes form outside sources. All MWR is funded excluslevely by the members of the US Militray, to inclde running of the Commisaries and the BX/PXs. NAF funds get pooled into a general account and divied out every fiscal year. They DO NOT come form tax payers.

We pay for that ****, you dont

Last edited by vilseck21; 12-31-2012 at 10:26 PM.
vilseck21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 12:12 AM   #18
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilseck21 View Post
What the article does not say about the MWR Golf courses, is that the courses are funded 100% by the military through BX/PX, AAFES, NEX and Commisary profits. Not one cent of NAF funds comes form outside sources. All MWR is funded excluslevely by the members of the US Militray, to inclde running of the Commisaries and the BX/PXs. NAF funds get pooled into a general account and divied out every fiscal year. They DO NOT come form tax payers.

We pay for that ****, you dont
Calm down. Can I get a source?
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 07:33 AM   #19
flashmeow
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,220
My Ride: E30-E46-E90-E90M-F30
Quote:
Originally Posted by vilseck21 View Post
What the article does not say about the MWR Golf courses, is that the courses are funded 100% by the military through BX/PX, AAFES, NEX and Commisary profits. Not one cent of NAF funds comes form outside sources. All MWR is funded excluslevely by the members of the US Militray, to inclde running of the Commisaries and the BX/PXs. NAF funds get pooled into a general account and divied out every fiscal year. They DO NOT come form tax payers.

We pay for that ****, you dont
True but i think the the grocery store does get some federal suplements to help off set the "at cost" practice.

Hey vilseck....r u back from the Stan yet? If not, stay safe and have a happy new year. U r my hero. Some people spend 3-6 months and some not even in theater and complain about their difficult "deployment." U in thr other hand spends 12 months and get pounded with idf on a daily basis so my hats off to u.

Stay safe and come home.


sent from Samsung Galaxy Tablet

Last edited by flashmeow; 01-01-2013 at 08:47 AM.
flashmeow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 08:26 AM   #20
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashtwosix View Post
Some people spend 3-6 months and some not even in theater and complain about their difficult "deployment." U in thr other hand spends 12 months and get pounded with idf on a daily basis so my hats off to u.
You making a reference to anyone in particular?
__________________
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use