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Old 01-02-2013, 12:42 PM   #41
casino is no lie
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The elderly are not bleeding the country dry, the government is. SS is just a big ponzi scheme for people who cannot manage their own money. SS should be eliminated but how do we ensure the elderly are taken care of?
So it's a lack of "fiscal responsibility" when it's the youth, but the Government's fault with the elderly?
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:51 PM   #42
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So how much less will someones paycheck be next week for a person making, let's say $50k a year?

I already pay $500 per pay check in taxes, and rent sure as hell didn't go down-Love how that works... In fact, I pay double what I pay in rent, in taxes per month...
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:56 PM   #43
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So how much less will someones paycheck be next week for a person making, let's say $50k a year?

I already pay $500 per pay check in taxes, and rent sure as hell didn't go down-Love how that works... In fact, I pay double what I pay in rent, in taxes per month...
Social Security will go from 4.2% to 6.2%. It translates to roughly $83.33 a month in additional taxes assuming the following:

1. They have zero pre-tax deductions (i.e., insurance premiums, 401K, etc.)

2. All other variables from 2012 remain constant (i.e., federal/state tax withholdings, annual salary, etc.).
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:46 PM   #44
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Not questioning you but wow 2/3 of the US do not file returns.
My friend just had a baby girl. She doesn't file returns. It's an outrage.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:52 PM   #45
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My friend just had a baby girl. She doesn't file returns. It's an outrage.
So 2/3rds of US is under working age? I'm confused by your example
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:55 PM   #46
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I took a couple of years off and didnt file a return.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:58 PM   #47
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I get paid under the table. So I don't file returns.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:12 PM   #48
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So 2/3rds of US is under working age? I'm confused by your example
I think you understood the example just fine. Your math on the other hand is dead wrong. How is ~46% equal to 2/3rds?
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:49 PM   #49
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I think you understood the example just fine. Your math on the other hand is dead wrong. How is ~46% equal to 2/3rds?
Who's math? 46%? I must have missed a page. lol oops, I assumed green_shine was stating correct info
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:51 PM   #50
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Will You Fall Off The Fiscal Cliff, Wage Slave? Let's See How Far

The "fiscal cliff" deal hammered out at the last minute by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and Vice President Joe Biden passed the House of Representatives last night - no thanks to House Republicans, who nearly capsized it at the last minute.

There are several articles out there explaining what's in the deal, exactly. But are you really going to read through all of that to figure out how you're supposed to feel about the deal? Here's our handy guide to how you should feel about the fiscal cliff deal if youre...

...a hard-right Tea Party conservative: you hate this deal. It offers no spending cuts and raises taxes on high-income earners (actually, thanks to the end of the payroll tax holiday, it raises taxes on everyone - but you only care about job creators), and you're furious at Speaker of the House John Boehner for allowing the bill to pass in the House with mostly Democratic support.

...a conservative with a longer view: you - probably there is just one of you, at this point - are actually pretty pleased with the deal: the Bush tax cuts are now permanent for 98 percent of Americans, and only expiring for individuals making more than $400,000 (not $200,000, which was the president's stated goal). And that's out of a situation that was probably Democrats' best chance to raise tax rates for a generation, and certainly not one in which you could have reasonably expected a deal with spending cuts.

...a liberal with faith in the president's negotiating ability: you think the deal is decent - not everything you might have expected, but there were no spending cuts, some low-income tax breaks were extended, and since for some bizarre reason you have faith in President Obama you're not worried about social services getting gutted when Republicans try to hold the debt ceiling hostage in February or March,

...a liberal without any faith in the president: you think the deal basically sucks. From a point where no deal at all would have automatically rendered the United States tax code significantly more liberal, we're now in a position where the Bush tax cuts are permanent even for some people who are rich by any reasonable definition; the end of the payroll tax holiday will raise taxes on low-income Americans and hurt consumer spending; and the president - you fully expect - will cave on the debt ceiling fight in a few weeks, signing off on big spending cuts on social services.

...a "deficit hawk": you hate this deal, which does nothing to lower the deficit, and actually raises it compared with projections for what would've happened had we "gone over" the "cliff." You are also an idiot, though.

...someone who makes less that $200 thousand a year: you're probably not entirely pleased, since the payroll tax holiday is over and you're losing between one and two percent of your after-tax income - but low-income tax breaks were preserved, the Bush tax cuts are now permanent for you, and any social services you use have avoided the House Republicans' hacksaw.

...someone who makes more than $500 thousand a year: you hate this deal, since your tax rates are going back up to where they were in the 90s; on the other hand, you're rich, so **** off.

...someone who makes between $200 and $500 thousand a year: you love this deal. Thanks to Mitch McConnell's negotiating, you avoided the expiration of your Bush tax rates (which the president would've preferred), and since much of your income isn't subject to the payroll tax you're looking at a smaller increase than the people making less money than you. And totally coincidentally, you happen to be in the same income bracket as many columnists, pundits, politicians and thought leader-y types!

...President Obama: you think this is the best deal you could've gotten - you've avoided the fiscal cliff, you've raised taxes on the rich (as you promised), and you're telling everyone (yourself included) that you won't compromise on the debt ceiling.

...Eric Cantor: you "hate" this deal - you refused to vote for it - but secretly you like it, insofar as it sets you up for a run at Boehner's spot as Speaker of the House.

...an op-ed columnist for a major newspaper or newsmagazine: you are probably excited at all the material this gives you for columns about how there are no Grand Bargains anymore and not enough Leadership from the White House and how both parties are equally horrible.

...someone who loves frequent self-created near-crises: you love this deal. Bring on the debt ceiling fight!
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:55 PM   #51
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...a "deficit hawk": you hate this deal, which does nothing to lower the deficit, and actually raises it compared with projections for what would've happened had we "gone over" the "cliff." You are also an idiot, though.

...someone who makes more than $500 thousand a year: you hate this deal, since your tax rates are going back up to where they were in the 90s; on the other hand, you're rich, so **** off.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:07 PM   #52
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...someone who makes between $200 and $500 thousand a year: you love this deal. Thanks to Mitch McConnell's negotiating, you avoided the expiration of your Bush tax rates (which the president would've preferred), and since much of your income isn't subject to the payroll tax you're looking at a smaller increase than the people making less money than you. And totally coincidentally, you happen to be in the same income bracket as many columnists, pundits, politicians and thought leader-y types!
Imagine that...
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:20 PM   #53
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My friend just had a baby girl. She doesn't file returns. It's an outrage.
Well round that 46.6 up and Romney's 47% is accurate.

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Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
So it's a lack of "fiscal responsibility" when it's the youth, but the Government's fault with the elderly?
I think I miss read your quote earlier. Were you suggesting that SS will not stay alive by the youth choosing to donate into it?
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:25 PM   #54
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I think I miss read your quote earlier. Were you suggesting that SS will not stay alive by the youth choosing to donate into it?
I don't think I quite understand your question. From my understanding, unless their is drastic SS reform or funds being supplied to it through other means, the program will go bust before many youth ever reach retirement age.

In essence, they're funding a program in which they'll never benefit from.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:11 PM   #55
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My friend just had a baby girl. She doesn't file returns. It's an outrage.
I figured that out long ago when you made the initial statement.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:13 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci View Post
Will You Fall Off The Fiscal Cliff, Wage Slave? Let's See How Far

The "fiscal cliff" deal hammered out at the last minute by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and Vice President Joe Biden passed the House of Representatives last night - no thanks to House Republicans, who nearly capsized it at the last minute.

There are several articles out there explaining what's in the deal, exactly. But are you really going to read through all of that to figure out how you're supposed to feel about the deal? Here's our handy guide to how you should feel about the fiscal cliff deal if youre...

...a hard-right Tea Party conservative: you hate this deal. It offers no spending cuts and raises taxes on high-income earners (actually, thanks to the end of the payroll tax holiday, it raises taxes on everyone - but you only care about job creators), and you're furious at Speaker of the House John Boehner for allowing the bill to pass in the House with mostly Democratic support.

...a conservative with a longer view: you - probably there is just one of you, at this point - are actually pretty pleased with the deal: the Bush tax cuts are now permanent for 98 percent of Americans, and only expiring for individuals making more than $400,000 (not $200,000, which was the president's stated goal). And that's out of a situation that was probably Democrats' best chance to raise tax rates for a generation, and certainly not one in which you could have reasonably expected a deal with spending cuts.

...a liberal with faith in the president's negotiating ability: you think the deal is decent - not everything you might have expected, but there were no spending cuts, some low-income tax breaks were extended, and since for some bizarre reason you have faith in President Obama you're not worried about social services getting gutted when Republicans try to hold the debt ceiling hostage in February or March,

...a liberal without any faith in the president: you think the deal basically sucks. From a point where no deal at all would have automatically rendered the United States tax code significantly more liberal, we're now in a position where the Bush tax cuts are permanent even for some people who are rich by any reasonable definition; the end of the payroll tax holiday will raise taxes on low-income Americans and hurt consumer spending; and the president - you fully expect - will cave on the debt ceiling fight in a few weeks, signing off on big spending cuts on social services.

...a "deficit hawk": you hate this deal, which does nothing to lower the deficit, and actually raises it compared with projections for what would've happened had we "gone over" the "cliff." You are also an idiot, though.

...someone who makes less that $200 thousand a year: you're probably not entirely pleased, since the payroll tax holiday is over and you're losing between one and two percent of your after-tax income - but low-income tax breaks were preserved, the Bush tax cuts are now permanent for you, and any social services you use have avoided the House Republicans' hacksaw.

...someone who makes more than $500 thousand a year: you hate this deal, since your tax rates are going back up to where they were in the 90s; on the other hand, you're rich, so **** off.

...someone who makes between $200 and $500 thousand a year: you love this deal. Thanks to Mitch McConnell's negotiating, you avoided the expiration of your Bush tax rates (which the president would've preferred), and since much of your income isn't subject to the payroll tax you're looking at a smaller increase than the people making less money than you. And totally coincidentally, you happen to be in the same income bracket as many columnists, pundits, politicians and thought leader-y types!

...President Obama: you think this is the best deal you could've gotten - you've avoided the fiscal cliff, you've raised taxes on the rich (as you promised), and you're telling everyone (yourself included) that you won't compromise on the debt ceiling.

...Eric Cantor: you "hate" this deal - you refused to vote for it - but secretly you like it, insofar as it sets you up for a run at Boehner's spot as Speaker of the House.

...an op-ed columnist for a major newspaper or newsmagazine: you are probably excited at all the material this gives you for columns about how there are no Grand Bargains anymore and not enough Leadership from the White House and how both parties are equally horrible.

...someone who loves frequent self-created near-crises: you love this deal. Bring on the debt ceiling fight!
Funny how you called a lot of us whiners and complainers of raising taxes, and yet you refuse to recognize by our posts that isn't the case.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:41 PM   #57
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Spending cuts are absolutely necessary for this country's long-term fiscal health. Massive spending cuts immediately, however, would likely be catastrophic to the short-term (and potentially to the long-term) fiscal health of the country. Minor increases in everyone's taxes through the expiration of recently enacted temporary payroll tax cuts is not likely to have any catastrophic results to the country's fiscal health. Minor increases in some tax rates for a very small group of high-income earners is also not likely to have a significant negative effect on economic spending but does raise a significant (though not significant enough to eliminate the budget deficit) amount of revenue. This is not a solution and it does not solve the fiscal problems of the country. However, it is a step in the right direction. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, UI, defense spending, and most other government spending need significant changes to be made in the future to allow for eliminating the deficit and reducing the national debt, as well as increases in revenue through elimination of other temporary tax cuts combined with an increase in GDP and decrease in unemployment when economic conditions can support enacting such measures. These changes, however, are not going to be popular with either party and thus are unlikely to happen in any responsible way in the near future.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:28 AM   #58
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Funny how you called a lot of us whiners and complainers of raising taxes, and yet you refuse to recognize by our posts that isn't the case.
huh?
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:34 AM   #59
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huh?
See the first page of thread
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:46 AM   #60
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^oooooo ok, the way you worded it was just hard to comprehend.
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