Where are the SPENDING Cuts?

Barack Obama, the food stamp president.

2000_328CI's post seems to reflect some undiluted 1950's era caricature of capitalism and socialism, one that still seems deeply rooted in GOP ideology as revealed, disconcertingly, in Romney's "47%" remarks. Unfortunately for the GOP/TP, this stale, cliched and self-serving "makers and takers" world view will be slow to be supplanted by some newer conceptualization of America and its citizens that's holds them in much higher esteem.

The 2012 election was a clear endorsement of Obama's and the Democratic approaches and just as clear a repudiation of GOP ideas -- both candidates campaigned very clearly and vigorously on their respective positions. So perhaps many in the GOP/TP will content themselves to retreat sourly and bitterly into their fusty ideologies of the past rather than undertaking a clear-eyed appraisal and reassessment of those policies to perhaps come up with newer more effective ones that a majority of American might one day find appealing. Some in the GOP are trying to dismiss 2012 as simply some packaging and presentation problem to avoid a deeper think, but I think this would be very wrong, the problems are much more than poor advertising or something.

I'm not suggesting replicating Democrat-lite, but new, unique GOP policies and thinking far more in tune with the 21st century than the 19th. The only other option really then would be to consign themselves to being some curmudgeonly minority party of sneering old white men grousing at modern America and its peoples around them.

Originally Posted by Green_Shine

lol if the guy actually cut spending and taxes, everyfvckingbody would love him. People don't like him because he's an asshat

He's kept taxes historically low. You still hate him. Name anything to cut... and I can find you Democrats and Republicans who will hate him for it.

The military budget was scaled back under Obama... Republicans ****ing hated him. If he cut food stamps and unemployment insurance... every Republican who relies on it would hate him. Cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid... now you have every person over 65, majority of which are Republican, wanting the man dead.

You're naive.

Originally Posted by 'busa

So you would have bumped the taxes back up in the middle of a recession and abruptly ended a war and left behind an even more unstable region with a major hard-on for killing Americans?

Nice try, but no.

"Libtards" makes you sound extremely stupid.

Did I offend you?


Where are the spending cuts. Remember it was supposed to be a level/equal bill of taxes and cuts. 41 vs 1 is NOT equal.

Originally Posted by casino is no lie

You need a source that tells you people are happier when they get to keep more of their money?

You know damn well you dodged what I was referring to.

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08

You know damn well you dodged what I was referring to.

Are we looking at the same post?

PS I do think spending cuts and entitlement program reform will be necessary, if not in the manner and time frame proposed by the GOP.

I would certainly start with defense spending as being one of the most inefficient and wasteful, and this coming from someone who does want a strong, efficient defense and military. Social programs and spending are the model of restraint and efficiency as compared to many/most DOD programs. One need only look at the horrendously bloated and problem-ridden F35 program to get a sense of the waste and inefficiency permeating much of the defense establishment.

If we can't reasonably assure our national security on expenditures exceeding the next 10-20 countries COMBINED, then perhaps the answer is not to maintain or, much less, increase spending but rather, to do a very deep review and rethink of how we are approaching our defense and military needs (and what those needs actually are). Conservatives ask of a similarly stringent approach to social programs so why not apply like thinking to defense spending rather than giving the DOD a veritable open wallet.

As for social programs, such things as raising ages of eligibility and applying a very progressive means-testing would be good places to start. However, perhaps best for the Democrats to take a vigorous lead here.

Originally Posted by Rhumb

PS I do think spending cuts and entitlement program reform will be necessary, if not in the manner and time frame proposed by the GOP.

I would certainly start with defense spending as being one of the most inefficient and wasteful, and this coming from someone who does want a strong, efficient defense and military. Social programs and spending are the model of restraint and efficiency as compared to many/most DOD programs. One need only look at the horrendously bloated and problem-ridden F35 program to get a sense of the waste and inefficiency permeating much of the defense establishment.

If we can't reasonably assure our national security on expenditures exceeding the next 10-20 countries COMBINED, then perhaps the answer is not to maintain or, much less, increase spending but rather, to do a very deep review and rethink of how we are approaching our defense and military needs (and what those needs actually are). Conservatives ask of a similarly stringent approach to social programs so why not apply like thinking to defense spending rather than giving the DOD a veritable open wallet.

As for social programs, such things as raising ages of eligibility and applying a very progressive means-testing would be good places to start. However, perhaps best for the Democrats to take a vigorous lead here.

+1

And privatizing SS. That is all.

Aren't these tax rates the same ones the democrats were so against when Bush was president yet are now screaming from the highest mountains to extend?

I say rates because there is no such thing as a tax cut, only rate increases or rate reductions.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Bimmer App

Originally Posted by casino is no lie

Are we looking at the same post?

Yessir

Support the second part of your statement. After the comma to be precise. Time to join the elitist ranks of you and 'busa and cite posters for not posting sources.

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08

Yessir

Support the second part of your statement. After the comma to be precise. Time to join the elitist ranks of you and 'busa and cite posters for not posting sources.

You want me to cite the following?

...you neocons would be bitching to no end that he was taking credit for something he didn't originally devise.

Originally Posted by casino is no lie

Obamacare was coined by Republicans in order to attach Obama's name to what they otherwise thought was an unpopular piece of legislation. It's been that way from the start.

Are you new?

It's still unpopular. Learn to read.

Actually is was derived from the old term Clintoncare which became Hiliarycare then to Romneycare and on to Obamacare now it's Idontcare.

Are you still 12?

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08

+1

And privatizing SS. That is all.

I only shudder to think what would have happened to a privatized SS in the collapse of 2008 and the Great Bush Recession.

Originally Posted by BB BMW

It's still unpopular.

Obama won the popular vote. Are you implying that he was the right choice?

Originally Posted by 'busa

When that happened, he was unable to work too many hours because he was studying for his PhD in neurobiology. Sh*t happens, I guess.

Well he shouldn't be out drinking beer if cannot afford then.

Originally Posted by casino is no lie

He's kept taxes historically low. You still hate him. Name anything to cut... and I can find you Democrats and Republicans who will hate him for it.

The military budget was scaled back under Obama... Republicans ****ing hated him. If he cut food stamps and unemployment insurance... every Republican who relies on it would hate him. Cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid... now you have every person over 65, majority of which are Republican, wanting the man dead.

You're naive.

You're naive to believe people hating him has nothing to do with his socialist view points and agenda.

Originally Posted by BB BMW

It's still unpopular. Learn to read.

Actually is was derived from the old term Clintoncare which became Hiliarycare then to Romneycare and on to Obamacare now it's Idontcare.

Are you still 12?

The demonizing of the "Obamacare" moniker is reflective more of GOP propaganda success than actual GOP policy success or alternatives. When polled on the individual elements that actually comprise "Obamacare" policies and programs, it is very popular in general, representing a convincing Dem policy success, if not a propaganda one.

Do recall that "Obamacare" is essentially a cribbed and rebranded GOP health care solution. If anything, they ought to be pissed over intellectual property infringement by Obama rather than at the program itself, which is basically their own.

Originally Posted by BB BMW

Did I offend you?

You offended your own dignity.

Originally Posted by Green_Shine

Well he shouldn't be out drinking beer if cannot afford then.

Well, our circle of friends didn't want to give up doing fun things that require a bit of money and we didn't want to exclude our friend either. We solved it by treating out friend to a beer every once in a while. This gesture has since paid us back in dividends, both in terms of material things like beer and immaterial concepts like friendship and good stories.

Originally Posted by Rhumb

The demonizing of the "Obamacare" moniker is reflective more of GOP propaganda success than actual GOP policy success or alternatives. When polled on the individual elements that actually comprise "Obamacare" policies and programs, it is very popular in general, representing a convincing Dem policy success, if not a propaganda one.

Do recall that "Obamacare" is essentially a cribbed and rebranded GOP health care solution. If anything, they ought to be pissed over intellectual property infringement by Obama rather than at the program itself, which is basically their own.

The bill has popular portions to it, I agree, even parts I like, but the overall bill is bad. Most people, including me, do not know what is actually in the bill overall. Not even congress read the bill before voting. The true nature of the bill will not be relized for years. There is so much pok and BS stuck in the bill that takes away from the intent of the good. The bill was for a good cause that was bastardized by implamenting the wastefull spending pork. If it is so good, why are so many groups requesting exemptions. First of all Congress and unions. The majority of states are opting out of the Medicare pool, leaving it up to the feds to set up and pay for. More spending.

Remember we had to pass it before we would find out what was in it.
That in itself should have raised RED FLAGS.

Originally Posted by Green_Shine

You're naive to believe people hating him has nothing to do with his socialist view points and agenda.

The United States of America is a Republic and not a Democracy. We have and always will embody Socialist aspects to our way of life.

Originally Posted by 'busa

Well, our circle of friends didn't want to give up doing fun things that require a bit of money and we didn't want to exclude our friend either. We solved it by treating out friend to a beer every once in a while. This gesture has since paid us back in dividends, both in terms of material things like beer and immaterial concepts like friendship and good stories.

It is refreshing to know others, like myself are generous towards their friends and family. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone was as kind hearted? I have to say, it would be irritating if I was forced into covering someone's beer who I didn't know, where is his family?