Redline Speed Worx Presents: Saad Racing / Pro EFI Stage 3 Build

the turbos in s54 world just got serious.... well... thats freaking awesome!! Competition is healthy ;-)

Originally Posted by JR @ RS WORX

These pumps have ran on some of SAAD's builds that run E85 for over 15,000 miles.

I feel compelled to point out, if a car is mostly used on the highway, 15000 miles equates to about 300 hours of drive time. Presuming an average speed of 50 MPH.

Another consideration is how the pump may fail. If failure is a result of not being able to maintain fuel pressure at a higher flow then some sort of failsafe needs to be in place. Ideally, the ECU should have a fuel related failsafe built in. Is there such a failsafe?

EDIT: That exhaust manifold is sweet. Can't wait to see numbers!

Originally Posted by FragNasty

I feel compelled to point out, if a car is mostly used on the highway, 15000 miles equates to about 300 hours of drive time. Presuming an average speed of 50 MPH.

Another consideration is how the pump may fail. If failure is a result of not being able to maintain fuel pressure at a higher flow then some sort of failsafe needs to be in place. Ideally, the ECU should have a fuel related failsafe built in. Is there such a failsafe?

EDIT: That exhaust manifold is sweet. Can't wait to see numbers!

Yes but also remember that the pumps need to meet two prerequisites, Rpm and Boost. if you are just cruising on the highway the 044's will never turn on.

The car should be going together in the next few weeks!

Originally Posted by JR @ RS WORX

Yes but also remember that the pumps need to meet two prerequisites, Rpm and Boost. if you are just cruising on the highway the 044's will never turn on.

The car should be going together in the next few weeks!

10-4

I read that bit after posting in one of your replies to another member; thanks for clarifying again.

While we are on the topic of your ProEFI offering, do you care to comment about failsafes that the ProEFI offers? I remember Jason going into how important failsafes are but I can't remember the details that where discussed. Maybe you can put up a link to technical specifications/features for the kit.

Thanks in advance.

I wouldn't worry about the Bosch 044 fuel pump at all! They are by far the most proven fuel pump on the market and widely used in all applications. I used one on my previous car (daily driven/tracked) and it never once gave me a problem. I also have a lot of friends running Bosch 044's on their E85 Evo's/Supra's/WRX's/etc.. and none have had any fueling issues. A genuine Bosch 044 pump used with a proper filter and clean tank (ie not an old gas tank used with 91 octane gas and then switched to E85 without cleaning..) will last for a very very long time.

Originally Posted by FragNasty

While we are on the topic of your ProEFI offering, do you care to comment about failsafes that the ProEFI offers? I remember Jason going into how important failsafes are but I can't remember the details that where discussed. Maybe you can put up a link to technical specifications/features for the kit.

Thanks in advance.

ProEFI and failsafes? Yesssssir!

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...from-boom-boom

Wow, those parts all look like a work of art.

The ProEFI failsafes are exemplary. In this day and age, with the great options available, we can't imagine running a turbo high compression setup like a E46m turbo without lean protection, fuel pressure protection, etc...

It is one thing if you're running an inexpensive turbo DSM on a series 1 ems, but considering the cost of these cars, engine's, and turbo kits, having an ECU that understands boost and what the parameters should be under boost seems like such an "automatic" necessity.

This kit looks great and I wouldn't worry about those 044's, they're great pumps!

Originally Posted by dan avoN7

ProEFI and failsafes? Yesssssir!

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...from-boom-boom

Thanks for the link. Nice story!

Is there an official link that Redline would publish regarding features/failsafes that the ECU provides?

Originally Posted by FragNasty

Thanks for the link. Nice story!

Is there an official link that Redline would publish regarding features/failsafes that the ECU provides?

I will put something together and post it up!

Originally Posted by FragNasty

Thanks for the link. Nice story!

Is there an official link that Redline would publish regarding features/failsafes that the ECU provides?

First off ProEFI has built in failsafes that are imbedded into the code so they are always on. For example overboost. With the I boost you have 5 boost curves that are allowable. You can set the overboost amount and time in the software. So lets say that you have a curve that goes from 18 psi to 33 psi from 0 mph to 60 mph. Then if you ever go X amount of boost over your setpoint for Y amount of time, then overboost kicks in. X and Y being adjustable. Overboost will then engage a fuel cut/ ignition cut to save you. Now you can also setup additional thing to happen like the check engine light coming on, nitrous shutting off etc.

ProEFI of course has individual cylinder knock control that again automatically retards timing instantly in the offending cylinder but then you can set it to put on a check engine light, disable nitrous, default to base boost etc when this occurs.

Also built into the code is fuel pressure safety compensation. If the fuel pressure does not rise with boost the ecu automatically adjusts the injector pulse width to keep your a/f's perfect. Then you can setup what else happens with the fault manager like check engine light, disable nitrous, base boost, rev limiter etc.

ProEFI also has a complete OEM style fault manager. IF any sensor goes out of range it can be set to throw a check engine light, engage a revlimiter, disable nitrous, go to base boost or just about anything that you can imagine. These actions can also be set to happen only if the fault occurs, suspected, active, occurred etc. Meaning that you can set the number of times that a sensor has to go out of range to set the fault, below that it would be considered suspected, over that it would be considered occurred. If you set the manager to occurred for example to disable nitrous, then the ecu will not let nitrous activate until the fault is cleared. If you set it to active then the nitrous will only be disable if the fault is active.

You also have curves that you can set for example for oil pressure. If the oil pressure is below what you set by rpm at any point then you can set it to do up to 4 actions from invoke a hard cut, shut you completely down, turn of nitrous, base boost or simply put on a check engine light.

You can do this for pretty much any fault !!

Here is a partial list of the faults that are in the ProEFI.

Boost limit exceeded, brake/clutch pressure high/low, cam edge fault, cam sync fault, crank edge fault, crank sync fault, differential wheel speed exceeded, drive shaft speed exceeded, coolant temp high, EGT high, Electronic throttle body open fault, electronic throttle body sticking, engine over speed, ethanol content low, exhaust back pressure high.low, (1st-6th) gear accel limit exceeded, flex fuel sensor fault, air temp fault or high/low, I boost switch fault, knock sensor fault, map sensor fault, mass air meter fault, nitrous bottle pressure fault or high/low up to 4 bottles, nitrous armed, nitrous engaged, O2 failed lean/rich (two sensors), O2 target not met, oil temp high/low, oil pressure high low, oil temp sensor fault, oil pressure sensor fault, fuel pressure sensor fault, fuel pressure not rising with boost etc, radiator pressure sensor fault, radiator pressure high, batt voltage high/low, TPS sensor fault or out of range, trans temp sensor fault or high/low, trans pressure sensor fault or high/low, turbo speed sensor fault or high, vehicle speed accel limit exceeded, variable cam errors, wastegate pressure sensor high/low.


So therefore if any of these actions happens, you can have it do up to 4 things as a result!!

Also you can get the check engine light to flash codes like OEM as well and the faults are displayed on the can display too.

^ Thank you for the info!

Originally Posted by Sound Performance

First off ProEFI has built in failsafes that are imbedded into the code so they are always on. For example overboost. With the I boost you have 5 boost curves that are allowable. You can set the overboost amount and time in the software. So lets say that you have a curve that goes from 18 psi to 33 psi from 0 mph to 60 mph. Then if you ever go X amount of boost over your setpoint for Y amount of time, then overboost kicks in. X and Y being adjustable. Overboost will then engage a fuel cut/ ignition cut to save you. Now you can also setup additional thing to happen like the check engine light coming on, nitrous shutting off etc.

ProEFI of course has individual cylinder knock control that again automatically retards timing instantly in the offending cylinder but then you can set it to put on a check engine light, disable nitrous, default to base boost etc when this occurs.

Also built into the code is fuel pressure safety compensation. If the fuel pressure does not rise with boost the ecu automatically adjusts the injector pulse width to keep your a/f's perfect. Then you can setup what else happens with the fault manager like check engine light, disable nitrous, base boost, rev limiter etc.

ProEFI also has a complete OEM style fault manager. IF any sensor goes out of range it can be set to throw a check engine light, engage a revlimiter, disable nitrous, go to base boost or just about anything that you can imagine. These actions can also be set to happen only if the fault occurs, suspected, active, occurred etc. Meaning that you can set the number of times that a sensor has to go out of range to set the fault, below that it would be considered suspected, over that it would be considered occurred. If you set the manager to occurred for example to disable nitrous, then the ecu will not let nitrous activate until the fault is cleared. If you set it to active then the nitrous will only be disable if the fault is active.

You also have curves that you can set for example for oil pressure. If the oil pressure is below what you set by rpm at any point then you can set it to do up to 4 actions from invoke a hard cut, shut you completely down, turn of nitrous, base boost or simply put on a check engine light.

You can do this for pretty much any fault !!

Here is a partial list of the faults that are in the ProEFI.

Boost limit exceeded, brake/clutch pressure high/low, cam edge fault, cam sync fault, crank edge fault, crank sync fault, differential wheel speed exceeded, drive shaft speed exceeded, coolant temp high, EGT high, Electronic throttle body open fault, electronic throttle body sticking, engine over speed, ethanol content low, exhaust back pressure high.low, (1st-6th) gear accel limit exceeded, flex fuel sensor fault, air temp fault or high/low, I boost switch fault, knock sensor fault, map sensor fault, mass air meter fault, nitrous bottle pressure fault or high/low up to 4 bottles, nitrous armed, nitrous engaged, O2 failed lean/rich (two sensors), O2 target not met, oil temp high/low, oil pressure high low, oil temp sensor fault, oil pressure sensor fault, fuel pressure sensor fault, fuel pressure not rising with boost etc, radiator pressure sensor fault, radiator pressure high, batt voltage high/low, TPS sensor fault or out of range, trans temp sensor fault or high/low, trans pressure sensor fault or high/low, turbo speed sensor fault or high, vehicle speed accel limit exceeded, variable cam errors, wastegate pressure sensor high/low.


So therefore if any of these actions happens, you can have it do up to 4 things as a result!!

Also you can get the check engine light to flash codes like OEM as well and the faults are displayed on the can display too.

Thanks for the reply. Very much appreciated.

Very good info indeed. If you don't mind. I'll PM further questions regarding ProEFI that are off topic.

DO not PM me, Email me!!

This kit looks nice, but when you price it all out it comes out to like $3,654,310 dollars.

Originally Posted by 6spd_legend

This kit looks nice, but when you price it all out it comes out to like $3,654,310 dollars.

hahaha what stage did you price out?

Originally Posted by JR @ RS WORX

hahaha what stage did you price out?

Using your website I checked out the prices on a Stage 3 kit- came out to an insane price considering it doesn't include an engine build lol. I know SAAD makes quality parts and their contribution to the community is much appreciated- I just think they could work on their pricing structure a little.

Originally Posted by 6spd_legend

Using your website I checked out the prices on a Stage 3 kit- came out to an insane price considering it doesn't include an engine build lol. I know SAAD makes quality parts and their contribution to the community is much appreciated- I just think they could work on their pricing structure a little.

I will check the website to make sure the prices are correct

Originally Posted by 6spd_legend

Using your website I checked out the prices on a Stage 3 kit- came out to an insane price considering it doesn't include an engine build lol. I know SAAD makes quality parts and their contribution to the community is much appreciated- I just think they could work on their pricing structure a little.

Prices are correct and are competitive with other companies

you have a PM

Originally Posted by JR @ RS WORX

Prices are correct and are competitive with other companies

you have a PM

No...they are not.

Looking at 13k without EMS...without fuel system...
so add on 3100 for the basic EMS without CAN display, I-boost, etc..
we'll say about 1200 for flex fuel sensor, can display, I-boost
add on 3600 for the Saad fuel system with pumps and injectors

And then there is a clutch...so anywhere from 1k-3k

So for the basic setup without subframe reinforcement...upgraded mounts, Saad ignition system and alot more "recommended items"... You're over 20k just to start without an engine build.

This is by far the most expensive option...by far and I wouldn't even say it's at quality to even consider spending that much...

So the basic HPF tuner kit with intercooler setup is $6000...SAAD tuner kit is $13000 ...the only big differences is the oil sump and tubular exhaust manifold...which for a non-built motor is pointless.

Now for 10k...you can get a full DME tuned setup with MaxPSI which is by far one of the best setups money can buy.

And then you have the FSR setup which very well may blow the HPF/Saad options away as far as quality and performance goes...pricing yet to be released but with the level of work they've been putting into their kit...it should be damn near perfect.

Regardless looking forward to seeing another boosted M on the road, just wanted to clarify some pricing so people are more aware