Can someone let me build their M3 like this please?

Originally Posted by FragNasty

Do you have any technical or scientific reason for believing the 2J has a superior bottom end? Do you care to say anything about the how one motor maybe better than the other in terms of reliability (presuming the vanos issue is a maintenance consideration only)?

One considerations that came to mind in high performance applications is cooling. Do you have information to suggest that either of the engines' cooling system may be less uniform or somehow suboptimal resulting in issues that stem from a design oversight?

I think testing a new motor design makes more sense if done on an engine dyno, as long as you have a proper facility for engine R&D that is, but I could be wrong... I certainly am not making a comment about the robustness of the supra chassis.

His point is that at this very moment the 2jz is proven and there are countless 2jz with over 1k hp compared to only a hand full of s54 or other bmw engines which are barely breaking 1k.

Originally Posted by zurus

His point is that at this very moment the 2jz is proven and there are countless 2jz with over 1k hp compared to only a hand full of s54 or other bmw engines which are barely breaking 1k.

10-4 to that; and maybe he was also even saying the Supra chassis is also "better" because it's more rugged. I caught those points.

The main reason it's more popular to customize is that it has more space around it fit high performance parts since it stands straight up and down. Maybe that's the only reason it's better.

Anyway, I just thought I would ask especially because someone who appeared quite knowledgeable is showing a neat project they have going with the 2jz and our man here brings up the topic of comparison between engines.

I believe such a question is perfectly valid, especially in this context and on this forum. For now it sound like the answer the answer on the table is "I don't know."

Tease...

Wouldn't even bother with a 2J in an E46 these days. I want to do a 440ci LSX turbo. Lighter engine, better weight disribution and will be cheaper to make more reliable horsepower and torque.

LSX is cheap?? LOL Have you priced a good set of heads for one?

Originally Posted by Sound Performance

LSX is cheap?? LOL Have you priced a good set of heads for one?

It's cheap for the power they make.

How much Hp are we talking about? Under 1200 rwhp and I bet the 2J is less than half the money.

For semantics, you can get a 6.0L lq9 iron long block for a couple hundred bucks and run 800whp unopened.

easily build that block with ls3 heads for 1200whp for under 1500-2000$ if you were just going barebones. Both motors need fuel, turbo, piping, etc, so the price difference there would be trivial. You arent building a 1200whp 2J for under 2000$ and even if so, it would still have to be 3.0L as a stroker kit alone is over 5k$. A 3L 1200whp 2J would be terrible on the streets as you'd need a 80mm turbo to get there. a pair of 65mm turbos on a 6L will make 1200whp and have basically no lag.

again semantics, as they are completely different motors with different power bands

Originally Posted by str8dum1

For semantics, you can get a 6.0L lq9 iron long block for a couple hundred bucks and run 800whp unopened.

easily build that block with ls3 heads for 1200whp for under 1500-2000$ if you were just going barebones. Both motors need fuel, turbo, piping, etc, so the price difference there would be trivial. You arent building a 1200whp 2J for under 2000$ and even if so, it would still have to be 3.0L as a stroker kit alone is over 5k$. A 3L 1200whp 2J would be terrible on the streets as you'd need a 80mm turbo to get there. a pair of 65mm turbos on a 6L will make 1200whp and have basically no lag.

again semantics, as they are completely different motors with different power bands

I've been debating going v8 in my rx7 for all those reasons...

...although this is trending off topic, what weaknesses do the above mentioned motors have?

Originally Posted by str8dum1

For semantics, you can get a 6.0L lq9 iron long block for a couple hundred bucks and run 800whp unopened.

easily build that block with ls3 heads for 1200whp for under 1500-2000$ if you were just going barebones. Both motors need fuel, turbo, piping, etc, so the price difference there would be trivial. You arent building a 1200whp 2J for under 2000$ and even if so, it would still have to be 3.0L as a stroker kit alone is over 5k$. A 3L 1200whp 2J would be terrible on the streets as you'd need a 80mm turbo to get there. a pair of 65mm turbos on a 6L will make 1200whp and have basically no lag.

again semantics, as they are completely different motors with different power bands

LS3 heads are not LSX ones with the extra head bolts. Regular LS heads will lift before 1000 RWHP!

Lots of guys run 1200+whp on 4 bolt heads. 1/2 head studs with aftermarket cast heads that are machined to hold the gasket better. Thats as much of a gamble as a 10,000 rpm 3L boosting at 40psi.

Obviously starting with a 6 bolt LSX block and heads would be better. At the end of the day, thats alot of power, you can spend as much as you want on it, and done properly either build will cost about the same.

IMHO, if your engine bay can fit a LS based V8, that is the only swap that makes sense for something thats driven more than 1/4 mile at a time 6 to 7L motors making 4-500whp NA make for fun off boost driving.

Originally Posted by 7to3_enthusiast

I've been debating going v8 in my rx7 for all those reasons...

...although this is trending off topic, what weaknesses do the above mentioned motors have?

1600 RWHP V8 in an RX-7. Watch all parts of the video series. I have watched many times and never get tired of it. Simply incredible. Nelson is my Hero!

http://www.streetfire.net/video/1600...nre_683353.htm

Sorry. I just had to post this link for anyone who has never seen this yet.

Originally Posted by str8dum1

Lots of guys run 1200+whp on 4 bolt heads. 1/2 head studs with aftermarket cast heads that are machined to hold the gasket better. Thats as much of a gamble as a 10,000 rpm 3L boosting at 40psi.

Obviously starting with a 6 bolt LSX block and heads would be better. At the end of the day, thats alot of power, you can spend as much as you want on it, and done properly either build will cost about the same.

IMHO, if your engine bay can fit a LS based V8, that is the only swap that makes sense for something thats driven more than 1/4 mile at a time 6 to 7L motors making 4-500whp NA make for fun off boost driving.

Well I either know or tune a lot of the LS cars in the Chicago area. Every one of them started lifting heads near 1000 RWHP, those with stock style deck heads would lift as early as 800 RWHP. Most of the fast guys have now switched to a complete LSX style with the extra bolts. One just went 7.25 at 202 a few weeks ago! Good luck if you try to keep the LS heads down at over 1000 RWHP, they will eventually lift.

Originally Posted by Sound Performance

Well I either know or tune a lot of the LS cars in the Chicago area. Every one of them started lifting heads near 1000 RWHP, those with stock style deck heads would lift as early as 800 RWHP. Most of the fast guys have now switched to a complete LSX style with the extra bolts. One just went 7.25 at 202 a few weeks ago! Good luck if you try to keep the LS heads down at over 1000 RWHP, they will eventually lift.

You too Larry. Heroes in the field for daring to MAX out builds and get away with it!!
Anyone can max out a build. Few can make them last. Hat's off to you, sir!

I made a new friend local to me with an E46 M3 with a 2JZ motor and auto tranny. He is already in the 10's. He HAS a Pro EFI ECU and a local place who knows how to install and tune them (E-85). He will be then looking for 9's.

I am scheduled for a ride in it soon and a trip to the drag strip with my HD video camera. A full report will be forth coming. Is this the sort of thing that is interesting to you?
The owner just loves the build. I find it fascinating.

Smh... For months i was asking who can do this... Ignored by some shops.. Other shops say they didnt have the time to take on that project.. Now i choose i diffrent route.. Smh

Originally Posted by InDiGlOM3

Id take a gallo 24

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i didnt know pizza places made motors