E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 01-14-2013, 02:44 AM   #21
Brissyjohn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 345
My Ride: 2003 325ti
After searching all over the interweb yesterday and last night, I cannot find a single case of total hydraulic failure of the power steering rack. Plenty of pumps though. A lot of enquiries today and no one has had any experience of a rack hydraulic failure but have seen pumps fail.

So, I've ordered a new pump and reservoir from Clickable and will start pulling the suspect bits off tomorrow.
__________________
Brissyjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 07:33 AM   #22
trive2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,100
My Ride: 1989 BMW 535i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brissyjohn View Post
After searching all over the interweb yesterday and last night, I cannot find a single case of total hydraulic failure of the power steering rack. Plenty of pumps though. A lot of enquiries today and no one has had any experience of a rack hydraulic failure but have seen pumps fail.

So, I've ordered a new pump and reservoir from Clickable and will start pulling the suspect bits off tomorrow.
Yup. I have never heard anything like it before, hence why I also still have my problem :


Let me know how you go! Would also love to come and help if you're not too far north? I suspect I'll be delving into the same places sometime soon myself.
__________________
trive2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 02:17 PM   #23
Brissyjohn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 345
My Ride: 2003 325ti
I'm in Jindalee - 0401 752795. Will be starting the removal at about 7:00 am. Hope to have it off by 9:00 am. Parts probably won't be here until tomorrow.
__________________

Last edited by Brissyjohn; 01-14-2013 at 02:20 PM.
Brissyjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 05:32 PM   #24
trive2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,100
My Ride: 1989 BMW 535i
Sounds good, you're not too far at all. That'd be great!
__________________
trive2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 05:53 PM   #25
aar0n_91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 2,346
My Ride: 05 BMW325CI///MSport
late last year my car became a truck as well. bought a new power steering pump off lucas, took it to the mechanic and all was well. cant tell you what exactly was wrong with the pump as i dont know................................
__________________

BMW 325 CI ///M-SPORT INDIVIDUAL
aar0n_91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 06:39 AM   #26
Brissyjohn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 345
My Ride: 2003 325ti
Pump is off. Mix up with parts. Spent the afternoon disassembling pump just for the hellofit.

Shaft is OK but it looks like the impeller blades were stuck fully retracted - probably the cause of no pressure.

Took the impeller out and removed each blade - some needed more encouragement than others. Once out and given a wipe they slipped in and out of their grooves OK.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pump_3.JPG
Views:	219
Size:	35.4 KB
ID:	486145   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pump_4.JPG
Views:	219
Size:	42.1 KB
ID:	486146   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pump_5.JPG
Views:	204
Size:	17.7 KB
ID:	486147   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pump_6.JPG
Views:	198
Size:	38.3 KB
ID:	486148  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Pump_7.JPG
Views:	204
Size:	31.1 KB
ID:	486149  
__________________
Brissyjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 05:14 AM   #27
Brissyjohn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 345
My Ride: 2003 325ti
Well, I put this pump back on today to see how it would go. It worked! for about 5 minutes on a test drive and then the system started having whines and rumbles when any power assist was required. It was worth a try and at least, for me, shows why/how the pumps fail.

So it looks like the impeller/pressure chamber design is the cause of the failures. It seems to me that microscopic particle build up on the impeller causes the vanes:

1. to jam closed - no sheared shaft but no pressure; or
2. to jam open - rotor jams and shaft shears as it is designed to do at the weak point where the rotor fits.

I guess this reinforces the notion that it's worth flushing the PS system every 25,000 km or so to reduce/prevent particulate build up.

I'll get a new pump tomorrow and hopefully fix the PS on my car for another 150,000 km.
__________________

Last edited by Brissyjohn; 01-16-2013 at 05:16 AM.
Brissyjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 07:56 AM   #28
Ballistic325
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,191
My Ride: slow and steady
Nice work! Interesting to see how it all works....
__________________

I can help with
* Reading Codes / Coding your car
* R&R FCAs, Tie Rods, Sway links....
* RTABs

Need an RTAB tool? Or clutch fan and water pump tools? PM me.
Ballistic325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 04:07 PM   #29
TurnersInOz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 514
My Ride: 2004 325i
Thanks for posting those pics John! I've never torn into a PS pump before, and it was interesting to see the internals and hear your thoughts on the failure.
TurnersInOz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 04:34 AM   #30
Brissyjohn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 345
My Ride: 2003 325ti
Update: So I pulled the pump off again today ready for the new one. Couldn't help myself and pulled it apart again to see what's going on. You need a #40 Torx bit.

All the impeller blades were free to move except one. I then noticed (under a magnifying glass) that the blades have a rounded edge and a flat edge. The slots are rounded at the axis end and I'd put a couple of blades in the wrong way i.e. rounded edge out. So I cleaned it all up again and reinserted the blades rounded edge in. I went over to Queensland Hydraulic Services who very kindly gave me (no charge) a 64mm ID, 2mm "O" ring for the case. Reassembled the pump.

So, I couldn't help but keep thinking that the problem that arose on the test drive yesterday was an air lock and that the pump was probably working - it did for the first 5 minutes. So I pulled out the reservoir and emptied it out and gave it a wipe.

So far all that this exercise has cost me is my free time, a drive in the MX-5 (hardly a task) over to Salisbury to get the "O" ring and 500 ml of Dex 111. So what's another 500 ml of Dex 111 out of the 4 litres I bought? So I put the pump and reservoir back on, buttoned everything up and filled the reservoir.

Turned the engine over and switched off after a couple of seconds to prime the pump. Re-checked fluid level - small top up needed. Had a beer to think - it was 4:00pm after all. Ran the engine a bit longer, still no weird noises. Checked fluid, had another beer. Drove the car up and down the (double width) driveway and moved it across from side to side without using huge steering angles. No noises, no fluttering through the steering wheel...and we have power steering again! Wooohooo!

Had too many beers by then so will leave the hidden air bubbles to rise overnight and take it on a careful test run tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

Footnote: I think it's pretty poor that a premium Euro car such as the BMW has this sort of failure though. I've seen plenty of cars (Holdens, Falcons, Japanese) that have been driven into the ground - and then another 100,000 km - and the power steering still worked fine and had never been touched. This failure shouldn't happen at 150,000 km in a modern car.
__________________
Brissyjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:34 AM   #31
Ballistic325
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,191
My Ride: slow and steady
Awesome feedback.... looking forward to test drive results.



Sent from my V9 using Bimmer App
__________________

I can help with
* Reading Codes / Coding your car
* R&R FCAs, Tie Rods, Sway links....
* RTABs

Need an RTAB tool? Or clutch fan and water pump tools? PM me.
Ballistic325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 05:34 PM   #32
Brissyjohn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 345
My Ride: 2003 325ti
Well, a few test drives around the suburb this morning through all the streets and no problems. Covered 6 km of twisty bits now and it works like a bought one - leak checked all okay. The missus has taken the Bimmer to the shops now so there's confidence for you.

The reservoir started off slightly over filled but, after the first test run of 1.6 km, it was down to just touching the dip stick - close to taking in air again. So I reckon what happened on the failed attempt on 16 Jan was that the reservoir got very low and the system took in a gutfull of air that I couldn't remove.

I guess I got it out with yesterday's "extreme" flush i.e removal of pump and reservoir, fix pump, refit everything, refill, go slowly on the bleeding process (drink a few beers) and keep an eagle eye on the reservoir fluid level.

I won't be happy until we've covered a few hundred km. I'll keep the new pump just in case but it may be for sale at a bargain price in a few months.

Final tips:

1. Get the front wheels off the ground if you can prior to running the engine and initially exercise the steering wheel just a half turn each way s-l-o-w-l-y. I couldn't do that as the car was out in the carport on a 1:6 slope with the front wheels on 100 mm of wood so I could get under the front of the car- see pic. I recommend 150 mm elevation to get just a bit easier access. I couldn't put the car in the single garage (the only piece of flat ground for miles) because that's being repaired and painted after hail storms in December.

2. Check the fluid level in the reservoir frequently during the bleed process and just take it a little bit at a time. Be patient - something I'm not good at.

3. If you want to flush the system, don't be a pussy and mess around with turkey basters etc. Undo the two connections at the pump and drain the oil. Then plug the pump delivery line (rubber hose), remove the airbox (easy to do but plenty of DIYs out there), and remove the reservoir. Put a plastic sheet and lots of rags over the alternator when you do this - you don't want to replace the alternator at $$$ because it got filled with ATF do you? Wipe out the reservoir with lint free clean rag, put everything back on and do the bleeding process.

4. The BMW "only use once" hose clamps do not have to be broken off or cut off. You can just unclip them by using a thin blade screwdriver under the claw of the clip - see pic. Replace them with jubilee clamps and do not over tighten - you'll need three clamps (one for pump and two for the reservoir) if the car is original.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Carport.JPG
Views:	167
Size:	106.6 KB
ID:	486543   Click image for larger version

Name:	Clip.JPG
Views:	197
Size:	112.4 KB
ID:	486544  
__________________
Brissyjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 09:00 PM   #33
Ballistic325
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,191
My Ride: slow and steady
That's a fantastic result... well done and keep us posted on any development.

__________________

I can help with
* Reading Codes / Coding your car
* R&R FCAs, Tie Rods, Sway links....
* RTABs

Need an RTAB tool? Or clutch fan and water pump tools? PM me.
Ballistic325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 02:08 AM   #34
trive2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,100
My Ride: 1989 BMW 535i
Our "Premium Euro Cars" require considerably more maintenance than the other cars you mentioned. Most of the components also seem more likely to fail.

European cars deserve every bit of the reputation they get. The day someone else makes a more reliable car that is in every way as good as my 330i, I will buy it. Till then, I'll keep fixing the Piece of SH*T
__________________
trive2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2013, 10:24 PM   #35
keithcrandall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Salt Lake
Posts: 64
My Ride: 2004 330i ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by esamc2 View Post
Thanks for the response.. its getting bizarre.. After prolonged debugging I have realized that if the car sits for about 6-7 hours the steering goes stiff. I put the leg on the pedal and rev its once and its gets perfect. I have wrapped some paper towels on the hoses which I suspect may have a slow leak but it has been 4 days now and the paper towels are fresh as new...I guess I will have to give in and loose a lot of change .. Will update you guys when I find something...Thanks
Did you ever figure this out? After I replaced my power steering pump I've had the same problem every time it is cold outside. Rev engine fixes and then I'm off.
keithcrandall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 05:09 PM   #36
BrianLawless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: TX
Posts: 1
My Ride: Ford Escape 2001
Hello, i know this is an old thread but since there are still uncertainty about this (and even mechanic workers are puzzled by this), i would like to add more details to this. So, i hope reviving this thread doesnt become a trouble.

I drive a Ford escape 2001. My Power Steering was working just fine, despite it had a leak in the PS system. It was ok while the leak was small, but when the leak got bigger i had to take the vehicle for repairs.

My PS always worked fine, even when the leak was huge (usually spilling all fluid overnight), but i had to take it for repairs because my striated band was starting to feel looser, i believe PS fluid damages it.

The first step was to replace the high pressure hose. The leak didnt stop, but the Power Steering was still working fine.

The second step was to replace the PS pump, and i decided to go also for a striated band replacement.

When i took my vehicle out of the repair shop, it was working great, no noise and the PS workged fine for about 3 or 4 miles. Then it stopped working when the car was on stop.

NOTE: I made the mistake to think that the PS was working fine when i rev up the motor, but it was actually the advancing that was making the PS work partially. So, here's where i will shed more light on the issue:

The PS is always working, when cold works great, but it gets too weak when hot to be able to turn when stopped. The low pressure on the system is not enough to steer while on stop. Reving up the mottor does NOT help, what helps is the movement.

I was told that the probelm was on the Rack, but the fact that it was working just before the pump replacement (same oil, clean), makes me doubt it. In fact, all the order of the events point to a defective pump.

I have been told many stories; about wrong oil expanding when hot, but the fact that it was working even with a leaky pump destroys that theory. About a lose belt, but newly added Belt (and after failre test of the old belt) destroys this theory. About a lose tensioner, but i have tested it and it has the correct tension, so, the theory is not good. Air or bubbles in the system, but i have followed the steps to remove air from it and no good, so that destroys that theory. About a "tight pump that needs to be loosen by use", but no good, because i had driven it for 2 weeks with the "tight pump" and the problem didnt improve, so that destroys that theory as well.

When the PS stops working, checking if the fluid is circulating is useless, because the pump will always circulate the fluid when the steering wheel is idle. Asking someone to steer while i check if the fluid was circulating revealed that when steering the fluid stops circulating. Maybe the pump does not have enough pressure. What puzzles me is the fact that it happens only when hot. Maybe some of the internal gaskets are expanding... or something.

More info: The replacement pump is an AutoZone remanufactured pump, I am on the second one, which changed my "symtoms", the first replacement worked fine for abour 3 or 4 miles, this second one works only for less than a mile. So, every move stacks more "points" to be a defective pump. I have read a few stories about AutoZone PS pumps not being good, and some people had to get a replacement 3 or 4 times. I was told that *maybe* they expect customers to get frustrated and stop going to get a replacement. I wont stop. I will go get a new one on monday. I will come here and post how this develops. Hopefully it will be useful for any future lurkers, as this problem doesnt seem to be very known among repair shop workers.

By the way, this kind of pumps have a plastic filter, i vividly remember that the mechanic removed it from my used pump but didnt install in the *new pump*. I will ask for this on monday. The problem could also be there.

Last edited by BrianLawless; 02-28-2015 at 05:26 PM.
BrianLawless is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
2004, 325i, e46, power steering

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use