E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 01-16-2013, 10:48 AM   #41
MKampa
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 13
My Ride: B7 Audi A4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
No...they are not.

Looking at 13k without EMS...without fuel system...
so add on 3100 for the basic EMS without CAN display, I-boost, etc..
we'll say about 1200 for flex fuel sensor, can display, I-boost
add on 3600 for the Saad fuel system with pumps and injectors

And then there is a clutch...so anywhere from 1k-3k

So for the basic setup without subframe reinforcement...upgraded mounts, Saad ignition system and alot more "recommended items"... You're over 20k just to start without an engine build.

This is by far the most expensive option...by far and I wouldn't even say it's at quality to even consider spending that much...

So the basic HPF tuner kit with intercooler setup is $6000...SAAD tuner kit is $13000 ...the only big differences is the oil sump and tubular exhaust manifold...which for a non-built motor is pointless.

Now for 10k...you can get a full DME tuned setup with MaxPSI which is by far one of the best setups money can buy.

And then you have the FSR setup which very well may blow the HPF/Saad options away as far as quality and performance goes...pricing yet to be released but with the level of work they've been putting into their kit...it should be damn near perfect.

Regardless looking forward to seeing another boosted M on the road, just wanted to clarify some pricing so people are more aware
You all are misinformed, the Saad Racing Stage 3 kits makes 940 hp to the tire and is proven in jasons car, in order to get that kind of horsepower out of an HPF kit you are looking at $49k!! And as far as maxpsi kit i have not seen their kit make over 500 hp, and personally i see a lot of flaws in that kit. Saad Racing sets records and is a game changer in the E46 M3 Turbo market.

Last edited by MKampa; 01-16-2013 at 12:17 PM.
MKampa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:03 AM   #42
6spd_legend
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: everywhere
Posts: 352
My Ride: acura legend 6spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKampa View Post
You all are retarded, the Saad Racing Stage 3 kits makes 940 hp to the tire and is proven in jasons car, in order to get that kind of horsepower out of an HPF kit you are looking at $49k!! And as far as maxpsi kit i have not seen their kit make over 500 hp, and personally i see a lot of flaws in that kit. Saad Racing sets records and is a game changer in the E46 M3 Turbo market.
The Saad Racing Stage 3 kit makes 940 rwhp on a stock block?
__________________
2001 LSB M3 Coupe
6spd_legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:06 AM   #43
MKampa
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 13
My Ride: B7 Audi A4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6spd_legend View Post
The Saad Racing Stage 3 kit makes 940 rwhp on a stock block?
Saad Racing and HPF stage 3 both require built engines, we are comparing stage 3 builds correct?

Last edited by MKampa; 01-16-2013 at 11:08 AM.
MKampa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:14 AM   #44
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,862
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKampa View Post
Saad Racing and HPF stage 3 both require built engines, we are comparing stage 3 builds correct?
You sir...are retarded...but if you want to compare built blocks it is still half the price as the saad setup.

Go stick it in your ass.

And I was comparing basic setups on a non-built motor.

With or without EMS it's half the cost...
__________________

Last edited by Commanderwiggin; 01-16-2013 at 11:18 AM.
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:27 AM   #45
E85head
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Car
Posts: 178
My Ride: E46 M3
I think if prices don't change. Max PSI is going to sell a lot of kits...
E85head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:28 AM   #46
MKampa
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 13
My Ride: B7 Audi A4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
You sir...are retarded...but if you want to compare built blocks it is still half the price as the saad setup.

Go stick it in your ass.

And I was comparing basic setups on a non-built motor.

With or without EMS it's half the cost...
Oh okay bud,

If we are talking basic setups then the Saad Racing kit is only $9,999.

If we are comparing stage 3, Saad Racing is still thousands cheaper than the HPf kit.

Only comparison i see is that the Saad kit is not only the best kit on the market, but also the most competitively price kit too.

Im sorry you are mislead on your information on the market but please educate yourself before posting up.

Thanks
MKampa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:33 AM   #47
E85head
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Car
Posts: 178
My Ride: E46 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKampa View Post
Oh okay bud,

If we are talking basic setups then the Saad Racing kit is only $9,999.

If we are comparing stage 3, Saad Racing is still thousands cheaper than the HPf kit.

Only comparison i see is that the Saad kit is not only the best kit on the market, but also the most competitively price kit too.

Im sorry you are mislead on your information on the market but please educate yourself before posting up.

Thanks
No doubt Saad kit is very impressive!

But i don't think you get everything you need for 9.999. If so i am very interested!
E85head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 12:13 PM   #48
JR @ RS WORX
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 74
My Ride: a car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
No...they are not.

Looking at 13k without EMS...without fuel system...
so add on 3100 for the basic EMS without CAN display, I-boost, etc..
we'll say about 1200 for flex fuel sensor, can display, I-boost
add on 3600 for the Saad fuel system with pumps and injectors

And then there is a clutch...so anywhere from 1k-3k

So for the basic setup without subframe reinforcement...upgraded mounts, Saad ignition system and alot more "recommended items"... You're over 20k just to start without an engine build.

This is by far the most expensive option...by far and I wouldn't even say it's at quality to even consider spending that much...

So the basic HPF tuner kit with intercooler setup is $6000...SAAD tuner kit is $13000 ...the only big differences is the oil sump and tubular exhaust manifold...which for a non-built motor is pointless.

Now for 10k...you can get a full DME tuned setup with MaxPSI which is by far one of the best setups money can buy.

And then you have the FSR setup which very well may blow the HPF/Saad options away as far as quality and performance goes...pricing yet to be released but with the level of work they've been putting into their kit...it should be damn near perfect.

Regardless looking forward to seeing another boosted M on the road, just wanted to clarify some pricing so people are more aware
Now, Saad racing stage 1 tuner system is $9,999 which is a more direct comparison. Soon to be coming with a DME tune as well. They have their shop car going together for testing as we speak and will have the final numbers SOON

The cool thing about Saad Racing is the they use the same components on the stage 1 tuner system as the stage 3 system

Stage 1 comes standard with:

3.5" stainless steel down pipe directly off the turbo with waste gate plumbed back in!

Tubular pyramid merge stainless steel manifold

4" x 7" long air filter element

Stainless steel motor mount bracket and billet aluminum engine mount

Stainless steel charge pipe from the turbo to the intercooler for durability

Gravity oil drain system

World record setting turbo system

The quality of all of their components are top notch. Garrett intercooler core, Tial bov and waste gate, Precision turbo, billet components used throughout.

No one else has these components as standard in their kits.

Recent dyno numbers put their kit at 940 hp to the tire on e85!!!

Also, the Saad Racing e85 add-on system is $750 (not $1,200) which includes the sensor, bracket, custom mandrel bent stainless steel fittings, adapter fittings for the sensor, wiring harness for the Pro EFI and Teflon braided lines. It is also adaptable to either stage1 or stage2 fuel systems
JR @ RS WORX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 12:30 PM   #49
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,862
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR @ RS WORX View Post
Now, Saad racing stage 1 tuner system is $9,999 which is a more direct comparison. Soon to be coming with a DME tune as well. They have their shop car going together for testing as we speak and will have the final numbers SOON

Also, the Saad Racing e85 add-on system is $750 (not $1,200) which includes the sensor, bracket, custom mandrel bent stainless steel fittings, adapter fittings for the sensor, wiring harness for the Pro EFI and Teflon braided lines. It is also adaptable to either stage1 or stage2 fuel systems
So for $750 that includes the can bus display and iboost controller as well?...pretty sure that's what my 1200 estimate was including...

And a DME tune...well that'll be impressive if it's true.

Either way looking forward to seeing some of these builds come to life...can't wait till I run into one at a runway event
__________________

Last edited by Commanderwiggin; 01-16-2013 at 12:41 PM.
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 12:59 PM   #50
PAT @ RS WORX
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Washington, NJ
Posts: 427
My Ride: TT-RS & 740AWHP S4
A few more pictures of product going into our build

Pauter I beam Forged Connecting Rods w/ ARP Hardware


Pauter_BMW_E46_M3_Rod_1 by Redline Speed Worx, on Flickr


Pauter_BMW_E46_M3_Rod_2 by Redline Speed Worx, on Flickr


Pauter_BMW_E46_M3_Rod_3 by Redline Speed Worx, on Flickr


Pauter_BMW_E46_M3_Rod_5 by Redline Speed Worx, on Flickr


Pauter_BMW_E46_M3_Rod_6 by Redline Speed Worx, on Flickr


Pauter_BMW_E46_M3_Rod_7 by Redline Speed Worx, on Flickr


Pauter_BMW_E46_M3_Rod_8 by Redline Speed Worx, on Flickr
__________________
.: Redline Speed Worx :. 908.223.7477
Tri-State's Premier APR Installation Center
German Automotive Repair, Performance & Fabrication

Shop Life - Click Me ! | We Complete Specialty Alignments !

PAT @ RS WORX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 01:00 PM   #51
JR @ RS WORX
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 74
My Ride: a car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
So for $750 that includes the can bus display and iboost controller as well?...pretty sure that's what my 1200 estimate was including...

And a DME tune...well that'll be impressive if it's true.

Either way looking forward to seeing some of these builds come to life...can't wait till I run into one at a runway event
You do not need those components to run e85. It's all done internally with the Pro EFI in conjunction with the sensor. You can certainly add those if you like though
JR @ RS WORX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 02:06 PM   #52
Twin_Turbo_S54
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 657
My Ride: M3
great to see other s54 turbo kits. good to see s54 platform move forward.
__________________
E46 M3 Sedan All Wheel Drive Twin Turbo 1200 whp
E46 M3 Coupe Turbo 60-130 mph 4,2 seconds (2011)
E46 330 xi Mora Metallic
Twin_Turbo_S54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 02:30 PM   #53
MarcusLSB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,364
My Ride: BMW's
I'd have to spend some time adding components/etc together to make a direct cost comparison.. but a HPF Stage 3 includes quite a few little bells n whistles like the gauges, meth kit, etc..

The best comparison would be a HPF Stage 2.5 vs a Saad Stage 3. The difference being Flex Fuel vs Meth. Saad's flex fuel setup being significantly less than HPF's meth setup. Ignoring that though and just going Stage 2.5 vs Saad Stage 3 without doing the math I think the HPF kit is still cheaper.. and more refined.. Saad builds race cars.. and he's rather good at it.. its just hard to beat the HPF Stage anything kit as far as refinement.. and thats not a knock against Saad, or anyone for that matter.. simply put JP built an incredible turbo setup for HPF and it shows in every nut, bolt and screw..

FSR is not far behind though, after spending some time with them I'm really impressed with their attention to detail.

Source: Been there, done that.. a year and a half ago.

If you're looking for wild, and lots of custom stuff.. I'd go Saad/FSR/ProEFI.
If you're looking for an off the shelf kit that just works and can be installed by just about anyone... I'd go HPF... if you start deviating from the off the shelf setup thats where the HPF kit starts to deteriorate.
__________________


youtube.com/marcuslsb -- Check out photography by Gheybe!

New Build by Lab22


Last edited by MarcusLSB; 01-16-2013 at 02:32 PM.
MarcusLSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 02:53 PM   #54
dallasberry
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,163
My Ride: ///M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusLSB View Post
I'd have to spend some time adding components/etc together to make a direct cost comparison.. but a HPF Stage 3 includes quite a few little bells n whistles like the gauges, meth kit, etc..

The best comparison would be a HPF Stage 2.5 vs a Saad Stage 3. The difference being Flex Fuel vs Meth. Saad's flex fuel setup being significantly less than HPF's meth setup. Ignoring that though and just going Stage 2.5 vs Saad Stage 3 without doing the math I think the HPF kit is still cheaper.. and more refined.. Saad builds race cars.. and he's rather good at it.. its just hard to beat the HPF Stage anything kit as far as refinement.. and thats not a knock against Saad, or anyone for that matter.. simply put JP built an incredible turbo setup for HPF and it shows in every nut, bolt and screw..

FSR is not far behind though, after spending some time with them I'm really impressed with their attention to detail.

Source: Been there, done that.. a year and a half ago.

If you're looking for wild, and lots of custom stuff.. I'd go Saad/FSR/ProEFI.
If you're looking for an off the shelf kit that just works and can be installed by just about anyone... I'd go HPF... if you start deviating from the off the shelf setup thats where the HPF kit starts to deteriorate.
Might also like to add that HPF also has a proven track record and a database of known problems. If you end up having a problem trouble shooting will more/less be a breeze compared to a more custom kit.

In my opinion all 4 vendors mentioned here build quality stuff, but like with everything in life they all have their good and their bad. It'll be up to what the customer wants in the end and how much they are willing to pay.
__________________
Custom Turbo Build By Lab22

815whp @ 625wtq 27psi E98

dallasberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 03:13 PM   #55
powerfreak1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 43
My Ride: 04 CB/Cinn M3
Don't mean to jack the thread, but I have been looking for SAAD pricing for a while, even PM'd/Emailed the OP about it and no response. Where can I find the pricing/power outputs?
powerfreak1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 03:18 PM   #56
E85head
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Car
Posts: 178
My Ride: E46 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerfreak1 View Post
Don't mean to jack the thread, but I have been looking for SAAD pricing for a while, even PM'd/Emailed the OP about it and no response. Where can I find the pricing/power outputs?
There is a PDF at Saad's Facebook plage, but you need to have adding skils
Or: http://www.redlinespeedworx.com/

Last edited by E85head; 01-16-2013 at 03:20 PM.
E85head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 05:14 PM   #57
JR @ RS WORX
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 74
My Ride: a car
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerfreak1 View Post
Don't mean to jack the thread, but I have been looking for SAAD pricing for a while, even PM'd/Emailed the OP about it and no response. Where can I find the pricing/power outputs?
I am pretty sure we responded to your're email

email me at JR@redlinespeedworx.com
JR @ RS WORX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 06:15 PM   #58
dan avoN7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 397
My Ride: A car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
So the basic HPF tuner kit with intercooler setup is $6000...SAAD tuner kit is $13000 ...the only big differences is the oil sump and tubular exhaust manifold...which for a non-built motor is pointless.
If you break it down by the actual parts.. you will also notice the HPF tuner kit doesn't come with an intercooler, hot side charge piping, cold side charge piping, BOV, intake piping, intake filter, and the other big ticket items you mentioned. Also I think the comparison between the two would be the Saad Racing Stage 1 kit which is $9,999 according to this link

http://www.redlinespeedworx.com/saad...harger-system/

If you do the HPF tubular "upgrade" (yet to see results showing if this is even making more power than their cast manifold), add their intercooler, their piping, their BOV setup, their intake, etc.. you are in the same ballpark for pricing..

Kinda pointless to compare the companies other "stages" as they both accomplish their power figures through different components. HPF uses methanol to achieve higher power, thus they don't need a very extravagant fuel system (can get by with a tiny pump inline/small injectors). Saad Racing looks to E85 to achieve higher power, thus they need a much larger fuel system than stock which to do properly requires much more lines/fittings.
The other "required" pieces aren't really needed unless you are pushing the setup to the max and want it very reliable. On your car that makes 800hp+, did you change out your driveshaft, differential, add a diff brace, add flex fuel with all sensors, etc..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Now for 10k...you can get a full DME tuned setup with MaxPSI which is by far one of the best setups money can buy.
If Saad is really coming out with a DME tuned setup, their Stage 1 kit would be in the same price range and offer similar components as MaxPSI's kit. I do like the fact that Saad's kit routes the intercooler piping up and over, uses a oil drain sump that appears plug/play and easily removable (MaxPSI posted a picture of their kit drain drilled/tapped in to the stock pan), etc.. Of course it would be nice to see more installed pictures of both setups to really draw a conclusion as to which kit one would go with.
dan avoN7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 06:21 PM   #59
dan avoN7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 397
My Ride: A car
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasberry View Post
Might also like to add that HPF also has a proven track record and a database of known problems. If you end up having a problem trouble shooting will more/less be a breeze compared to a more custom kit.
Something to think about.. The vast majority of these known problems/trouble shooting scenarios come from the fact that the kit is almost overly complicated when above a Stage 1. The multiple trouble shooting threads or issues are almost always related to the meth system and it's pump/sensors/lines/fittings, the oil scavenge system and it's pump/lines/fittings, etc.. This is of course my opinion (been around a lot of tuner cars over the years) but looking at MaxPSI's kit, Saad's kit, and FSR's kit.. I highly doubt you will run in to many reliability issues that require extensive trouble shooting.
dan avoN7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 06:36 PM   #60
Commanderwiggin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 3,862
My Ride: 900rwhp Turbo M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan avoN7 View Post
Something to think about.. The vast majority of these known problems/trouble shooting scenarios come from the fact that the kit is almost overly complicated when above a Stage 1. The multiple trouble shooting threads or issues are almost always related to the meth system and it's pump/sensors/lines/fittings, the oil scavenge system and it's pump/lines/fittings, etc.. This is of course my opinion (been around a lot of tuner cars over the years) but looking at MaxPSI's kit, Saad's kit, and FSR's kit.. I highly doubt you will run in to many reliability issues that require extensive trouble shooting.
I agree...I am against the Meth system myself and in the future will be turning it into a standard 50/50 setup for cooling but will not rely on it by any means.
__________________
Commanderwiggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use