Legitimate question for "gun control"

Originally Posted by Iceman00

Again, you didn't watch the video - a vast majority of the illegal firearms (yes) that are trafficked come from a handfull of dealers, and dealers can't be inspected more than once a year, nor are they required to keep a log of their inventory. Also, they are not required to cooperate with authorities? If this is true, how to you think we can enforce existing laws on the books with those restrictions? Did you catch the part where they mentioned there is no current director of the ATF, and there hasn't been on for 7 years? Ridiculous.

I watched the video. It was a liberal Jon Stewart rant that brought up nothing new.

What "handful" of dealers is this providing all the "illegal" firearms? Who says dealers can't be inspected more than once a year? You think business owners don't keep inventories? Did you take "how to run a business 101" pre-requisites? Part of owning a business is knowing what's in stock.

In what way are business owners not required to cooperate with authorities when it comes to keeping purchase records?

Oh no! No BATFE director??? Because he has to be Senate confirmed? If this were a priority, why weren't the Democrats confirming a director while they've controlled the Senate for the majority of the time the post has been empty? Who's been nominated for the post in the past 6 years? Who's been president for 4 of those 6 years the post has been empty?

Why is this just being mentioned now? Oh yeah, that's right, we can have a justifiable emotional reaction.

Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer

any of the guns I own could shoot a depleted uranium bullet as long as it was the correct caliber.

And automatic weapons are not illegal to own. But tell me, if you can, when was the last time a crime was committed with a legally purchased automatic weapon.

They are, unless you have a class III license and are a dealer (using it for demonstration purposes) Unless I'm incorrect on that.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you the majority of violent crime (according to FBI statistics) are with *gasp* firearms. Let's be clear here, no on (in this thread) is calling for the banning of weapons, I asking what can be done to minimize the risk of these weapons getting into the wrong hands? Of should we just ignore the problem?

Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer

I watched the video. It was a liberal Jon Stewart rant that brought up nothing new.

What "handful" of dealers is this providing all the "illegal" firearms? Who says dealers can't be inspected more than once a year? You think business owners don't keep inventories? Did you take "how to run a business 101" pre-requisites? Part of owning a business is knowing what's in stock.

In what way are business owners not required to cooperate with authorities when it comes to keeping purchase records?

Oh no! No BATFE director??? Because he has to be Senate confirmed? If this were a priority, why weren't the Democrats confirming a director while they've controlled the Senate for the majority of the time the post has been empty? Who's been nominated for the post in the past 6 years? Who's been president for 4 of those 6 years the post has been empty?

Why is this just being mentioned now? Oh yeah, that's right, we can have a justifiable emotional reaction.

According to Stewart, it's part of the law that was snuck into the patriot act. I'm going to double check it to make sure.

Originally Posted by Iceman00

They are, unless you have a class III license and are a dealer (using it for demonstration purposes) Unless I'm incorrect on that.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you the majority of violent crime (according to FBI statistics) are with *gasp* firearms. Let's be clear here, no on (in this thread) is calling for the banning of weapons, I asking what can be done to minimize the risk of these weapons getting into the wrong hands? Of should we just ignore the problem?

No, they're not illegal to own, as long as you fill out the proper paperwork.

Source on your statistic of the "majority" of violent crime being committed with firearms? I'd be interested to see that one.

Originally Posted by Iceman00

How can we enforce existing gun laws when law enforcement's hands are tied? Why are we ok with the NRA (and the GOP) blocking our attempts to control illegal fire arms? Could it be they aren't looking out for gun owners, but rather manufactures and dealers?

And why isn't this more talked about?

The distinction people are trying to make is that there isn't such a thing as an illegal firearm. There is such a thing as a person illegally owning a firearm. There is also such a thing as a person committing an illegal act with a firearm. The person makes it illegal, not the firearm.

At least that's my understanding.

Ban murder. Oh wait, goddammit.

maybe we should make it a felony to buy a firearm for someone else.

Oh, wait. Nvm.

Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer

No, they're not illegal to own, as long as you fill out the proper paperwork.

Source on your statistic of the "majority" of violent crime being committed with firearms? I'd be interested to see that one.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-7

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...obbery-table-3

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...-assault-table

There is more out there - if you want to see it.

Originally Posted by Iceman00

They are, unless you have a class III license and are a dealer (using it for demonstration purposes) Unless I'm incorrect on that.

What? You're in over your head, in fact you're drowning
Go educate yourself before trying to debate

Originally Posted by Iceman00

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you the majority of violent crime (according to FBI statistics) are with *gasp* firearms. Let's be clear here, no on (in this thread) is calling for the banning of weapons, I asking what can be done to minimize the risk of these weapons getting into the wrong hands? Of should we just ignore the problem?

tell me how many people are killed every year by NFA weapons

Go

Originally Posted by evolved

The distinction people are trying to make is that there isn't such a thing as an illegal firearm. There is such a thing as a person illegally owning a firearm. There is also such a thing as a person committing an illegal act with a firearm. The person makes it illegal, not the firearm.

At least that's my understanding.

Ok, fair point.

The libs are getting burned in this thread.

I'll stay on the sideline and keep reading for entertainment.

Originally Posted by JonJon

What? You're in over your head, in fact you're drowning
Go educate yourself before trying to debate


tell me how many people are killed every year by NFA weapons

Go

Again, no one is speaking on BANNING WEAPONS. I am specifically asking about what we can do to lessen these types of incidents. I know that Assault weapons are responsible for very little crime, I'm worried about the trafficking of weapons and giving law enforcement the proper tools to do their jobs, so civilians won't have to.

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08

The libs are getting burned in this thread.

I'll stay on the sideline and keep reading for entertainment.

Reality and facts have a liberal bias.

Originally Posted by Iceman00

Reality and facts have a liberal bias.

Not entirely. Emotions run deep on both sides...and emotions aren't factual.

Originally Posted by JonJon

tell me how many people are killed every year by NFA weapons

Go

Could the low homicide rate be because they are more tightly controlled?

Originally Posted by Iceman00

Again, no one is speaking on BANNING WEAPONS. I am specifically asking about what we can do to lessen these types of incidents. I know that Assault weapons are responsible for very little crime, I'm worried about the trafficking of weapons and giving law enforcement the proper tools to do their jobs, so civilians won't have to.

what tools? A national registry of gun owners maybe?

Originally Posted by badfast

Could the low homicide rate be because they are more tightly controlled?

or maybe because the owners of these weapons have tons of money invested in them, and any firearms-related crime would put that entire investment immediately at risk.

Or maybe because they're law-abiding citizens who own NFA guns.

Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer

or maybe because the owners of these weapons have tons of money invested in them, and any firearms-related crime would put that entire investment immediately at risk.

Or maybe because they're law-abiding citizens who own NFA guns.

Since you choose to answer for JonJon and avoided the question, perhaps I shall ask again:

Originally Posted by badfast

Could the low homicide rate be because they are more tightly controlled?

Originally Posted by badfast

Could the low homicide rate be because they are more tightly controlled?

No

Many professional studies clearly show crime does not go down after instituting the AWB's of the past. It makes no positive impact on crime, in fact crime goes UP

Originally Posted by JonJon

No

Many professional studies clearly show crime does not go down after instituting the AWB's of the past. It makes no positive impact on crime, in fact crime goes UP

I would like to see those studies. Have one variable impact another single variable (i.e: crime goes down, gun ownership up and vice versa) is difficult to believe. Correlation is not causation. I am sure there are a number of variables affecting crime rates, not specifically gun ownership rates.

I would also like to see something stating that the low homicide rate with NFA guns are not at all associated with tighter controls.