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Old 01-19-2013, 11:18 AM   #81
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No chit Sherlock. Nobody ever suggested as such. The idea is to curb gun related violence... because there is no way to curb your average run of the mill violence. If you want people to quit thinking guns are bad wouldn't it be ideal to make it harder to get untraceable guns? A person is a lot less likely to kill someone with something that give a clue as to who may have used the killing tool.

Let's face it. Guns make killing easy. Their sole purpose is to put holes in things from a distance with speed and force. And the guns can be traced with a little protocol.
What is stopping someone from getting a gun and filing off the serial number, making it untraceable? You keep bringing up untraceable guns, but the reality is that everything that is proposed hurts legal gun owners.

I am all for the ATF doing their jobs, appointing a director and cracking down on this kind of thing. Stop the under the table sale from a gun shop is fine with me. Most people who are law abiding people pay the fees and get the background checks. I question how the ATF knows what shops are selling guns under the table for cash, if the guns cannot be traced.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:21 AM   #82
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Can't bullets be traced to guns? Why yes... they can! Filing off a serial number will not alter the barrel that marks the bullet.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:24 AM   #83
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Can't bullets be traced to guns? Why yes... they can! Filing off a serial number will not alter the barrel that marks the bullet.
From what I've read, that's all Holywood. It's almost impossible to trace a bullet to a gun, but in VERY rare cases it can be done. Honestly, I don't know much on the subject, just what I have read.

To be able to trace a bullet to a gun you need three things....

1) The casing.
2) The gun must have some sort of a flaw that will mark the casing.
3) The gun and casing present together (which almost never happens)
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:26 AM   #84
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It seems to be a legit practice... although the forensics would need the gun and the bullet that was fired in the offense to do the tests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_fingerprinting
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:35 AM   #85
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It seems to be a legit practice... although the forensics would need the gun and the bullet that was fired in the offense to do the tests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_fingerprinting
Thats what I mean....the accuracy is fairly low...I think I read somewhere that it was about 60% accurate. Many guns don't have rifled barrels, making one comparison impossible. Other times when they want to match the case to the firing pin requires that they find the spent casing, also not easy most of the time. Couple that with the 90% of crimes where the weapon isn't there, and you have very VERY rare instances where it can even be done.

My point was relying on this practice to help alleviate any form of gun violence problem isn't feasible.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:45 PM   #86
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From what I've read, that's all Holywood. It's almost impossible to trace a bullet to a gun, but in VERY rare cases it can be done. Honestly, I don't know much on the subject, just what I have read.

To be able to trace a bullet to a gun you need three things....

1) The casing.
2) The gun must have some sort of a flaw that will mark the casing.
3) The gun and casing present together (which almost never happens)
Typically every gun has distinguishable features. Striations are unique to a gun. All you need is the fired round and gun. The casing is not needed to trace a bullet to a gun. However, there are types of testing you can do to the casing such as match firing pins markings on the primer. Also the way in which a round is cycled in and ejected tends to leave unique markings. The extent to my knowledge is limited within forensics though. I took a class in college. Interesting field though.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:55 PM   #87
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Typically every gun has distinguishable features. Striations are unique to a gun. All you need is the fired round and gun. The casing is not needed to trace a bullet to a gun. However, there are types of testing you can do to the casing such as match firing pins markings on the primer. Also the way in which a round is cycled in and ejected tends to leave unique markings. The extent to my knowledge is limited within forensics though. I took a class in college. Interesting field though.
And what if the person has a replaceable barrel? If I planned on shooting someone, I would absolutely use a replaced barrel to do so. Flocks are easy to replace, available on eBay, and can be fitted in seconds.

My point again is, not everyone is stupid, and will find ways around the limited power the ATF has now.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:44 AM   #88
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And what if the person has a replaceable barrel? If I planned on shooting someone, I would absolutely use a replaced barrel to do so. Flocks are easy to replace, available on eBay, and can be fitted in seconds.

My point again is, not everyone is stupid, and will find ways around the limited power the ATF has now.
Replaceable barrel, firing pin, etc. Gun parts are interchangeable. Usually the only part that has the serial number is the receiver section.
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:59 AM   #89
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Replaceable barrel, firing pin, etc. Gun parts are interchangeable. Usually the only part that has the serial number is the receiver section.
Glocks have the s/n on the barrel as well. Regardless, say a person swaps the barrel and firing pin, commits a crime, switches them back and gets rid of the parts? What does the ATF do then?
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:02 AM   #90
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Glocks have the s/n on the barrel as well. Regardless, say a person swaps the barrel and firing pin, commits a crime, switches them back and gets rid of the parts? What does the ATF do then?
Suddenly the entire case is thrown out because of the sneaky gun owner and the great barrel mystery? This is just one of many ways to accumulate evidence regarding a crime. The more tools they have so solve homicides the better the convictions... so let's not dismiss options because there may be a way around it.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:12 AM   #91
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Suddenly the entire case is thrown out because of the sneaky gun owner and the great barrel mystery? This is just one of many ways to accumulate evidence regarding a crime. The more tools they have so solve homicides the better the convictions... so let's not dismiss options because there may be a way around it.
It would make it more difficult. Go to pawn shop, gun show, or through the local CL/sales section of local paper (don't use personal computer but rather a public computer and acquire a phone number from seller to conduct the transaction and don't use personal phone but rather a public phone and plan out meeting location with seller), buy barrel and needed parts with cash from either a personal stash or taken out of bank account some time prior. Swap in parts, commit crime, dispose of parts in a river, pond, furnace, etc. Somewhere not easily found. Swap back in original parts.
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.

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Old 01-20-2013, 11:26 AM   #92
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It would make it more difficult. Go to pawn shop, gun show, or through the local CL/sales section of local paper (don't use personal computer but rather a public computer and acquire a phone number from seller to conduct the transaction and don't use personal phone but rather a public phone and plan out meeting location with seller), buy barrel and needed parts with cash from either a personal stash or taken out of bank account some time prior. Swap in parts, commit crime, dispose of parts in a river, pond, furnace, etc. Somewhere not easily found. Swap back in original parts.
Oh, its that simple. How much experience do you have in committing crimes?
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:29 PM   #93
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Oh, its that simple. How much experience do you have in committing crimes?
None. I am for the most part a law-abiding citizen. That was just an example.

But if seriously thought out, you could beat the system...it happens more than people would like to know.
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

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Old 01-21-2013, 11:27 AM   #94
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The current admin can't even track guns they allowed to be sold and transported to Mexico. Fast-N-Furious is a prime example of the failures of the "GUN CONTROL" fanatics to push more legislation on law abiding citizens.

Even the reports of the SH shooting by an "ASSUALT RIFLE". A rifle was not even used in the shootings. But hey, never let a crises go to waste.
Push gun control and outlaw weapons based on a nightmare act by a nut who didn't use such weapon to be outlawed.

Outlaw vehicles, they kill more people every year than guns.
Outlaw hammers, they kill more people every years than guns.
blah, blah...........
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:00 PM   #95
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From what I've read, that's all Holywood. It's almost impossible to trace a bullet to a gun, but in VERY rare cases it can be done. Honestly, I don't know much on the subject, just what I have read.

To be able to trace a bullet to a gun you need three things....

1) The casing.
2) The gun must have some sort of a flaw that will mark the casing.
3) The gun and casing present together (which almost never happens)
You can trace a bullet to a gun. When you buy a handgun it'll come with a shell fired from that gun. In some places you have to register your gun and that shell with your police dept so that if a crime is committed, they already have 1 step completed in research.

I believe the only thing that is distinguishable on a fired shell is the marking the firing pin leaves. To my knowledge the gun doesn't put any other marks on a shell.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:26 PM   #96
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The current admin can't even track guns they allowed to be sold and transported to Mexico. Fast-N-Furious is a prime example of the failures of the "GUN CONTROL" fanatics to push more legislation on law abiding citizens.
How would you have wanted them to handle the Fast & Furious thing?
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What are we to do?
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:56 PM   #97
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Oh, its that simple. How much experience do you have in committing crimes?
People build guns daily, not hard. 1911 and AR kits are everywhere.
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