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Old 01-25-2013, 10:12 AM   #41
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What does takes vs makes even mean?
Ask Paul Ryan. He coined the term when he was referring to the people who take advantage of the same program he took advantage of.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:13 AM   #42
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I'm done with you. You're a miserable troll who has nothing to counter with, nothing. Sit home in your single wide and pout.


When you get your hypocritical ass handed to you, launch a personal attack or two.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:30 AM   #43
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What does takes vs makes even mean?
Maybe someone should have asked Paul Ryan to clarify. The way it sounds is that takers take what makers make. Or do you see it differently?

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Others- People use SS longer than 2 years.
Is longer than 2 years automatically "lifetime", because you said lifetime.

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A lot of people are successful with a 401k and would rather take their chances on their own.
Worked out great for people who had to cash in their retirement after the markets crashed or those who invested in Enron, right?
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:11 AM   #44
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Jon Stewart already addressed this with Wednesday night show -

http://www.hulu.com/watch/449001


Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is - SS doesn't add the deficit and would have remained solvent if we didn't borrow against its surplus. Simple changes can make the program remain solvent.

Everything else said in here is bullshit - pure and simple. Who are you to judge another person and tell them that they aren't qualified to receive public assistance (of some sort) Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water, the amount of people who abuse such programs is miniscule to how many it helps, abolishing/removing such a safety net would help no one.

So instead of hyperbole and rhetoric, how about we talk about what can really be done to realistically reform these programs and cut costs, instead of attacking the end user for taking advantage of a program that was meant to be used.

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Old 01-25-2013, 11:15 AM   #45
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Ryan's use of S.S. doesn't necessarily invalidate him from now being against it (in its present form at least), but it does make his argument rather tricky.

He can disavow his receipt of S.S. way-back-when as some youthful error in judgment and that he now sees the light. Trouble with this, his experience using S.S. seems to be a glowing advertisement FOR S.S. as it was and is. He used it for a limited time (2 years) to bridge a difficult period (father's death) to better himself (be able to afford to go to school) and become a productive and contributing member of society (U.S. Congressman). Ryan's a virtual poster-boy FOR what is good and useful about S.S.

Not to say such an argument can't be made, but maybe the GOP might want to find another person to carry this flag.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:49 PM   #46
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Maybe someone should have asked Paul Ryan to clarify. The way it sounds is that takers take what makers make. Or do you see it differently?

Is longer than 2 years automatically "lifetime", because you said lifetime.


Worked out great for people who had to cash in their retirement after the markets crashed or those who invested in Enron, right?
Makers vs takes is moot, it has nothing to do with SS. When did Ryan say SS are for takers?

Understand some people pay into SS for 30 years, die before collecting a check and have no family to collect a check. Where does that money go?

People who invested directly into Enron stock shares lost money. Those who invest into a 401k/mutual fund diversify their assets. Do you not understand investments?




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Ryan's use of S.S. doesn't necessarily invalidate him from now being against it (in its present form at least), but it does make his argument rather tricky.

He can disavow his receipt of S.S. way-back-when as some youthful error in judgment and that he now sees the light. Trouble with this, his experience using S.S. seems to be a glowing advertisement FOR S.S. as it was and is. He used it for a limited time (2 years) to bridge a difficult period (father's death) to better himself (be able to afford to go to school) and become a productive and contributing member of society (U.S. Congressman). Ryan's a virtual poster-boy FOR what is good and useful about S.S.

Not to say such an argument can't be made, but maybe the GOP might want to find another person to carry this flag.
Why would he not recieve the SS payments? His father paid into it?
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:52 PM   #47
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Makers vs takes is moot, it has nothing to do with SS. When did Ryan say SS are for takers?

Understand some people pay into SS for 30 years, die before collecting a check and have no family to collect a check. Where does that money go?

People who invested directly into Enron stock shares lost money. Those who invest into a 401k/mutual fund diversify their assets. Do you not understand investments?
He implied that SS recipients can be takers when the campaign he was associated with stated that the infamous 47% are basically leeches on society as a lot of SS recipients don't pay much or anything in terms of taxes.

You argue that there are people who die before they collect with zero family.....there are also people who collect far more than what they paid in, so it works both ways and are therefore part of that 47%. For what it's worth I don't see anything wrong with him collecting money. People would be amazed at how wasteful SS can be. Take this example.....let's say a guy has been married 3 times to 3 different women. He was married to each one of them for 10 years and none of them worked outside of the home. He is now single, and they are all 3 single, as well. When he starts taking SS that he has paid into for himself over the years, each one of those women is now eligible to get a 50% benefit based off of his paid in amount. That is a far more egregiously wasteful issue compared to Eddie Munster taking payments for 2 years to put himself through school.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:00 PM   #48
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He implied that SS recipients can be takers when the campaign he was associated with stated that the infamous 47% are basically leeches on society as a lot of SS recipients don't pay much or anything in terms of taxes.

You argue that there are people who die before they collect with zero family.....there are also people who collect far more than what they paid in, so it works both ways and are therefore part of that 47%.

There should no argument for SS to work "both ways". That is the problem, people should be in control of their own money, not the government.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:01 PM   #49
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There should no argument for SS to work "both ways". That is the problem, people should be in control of their own money, not the government.
Yes, but let's deal in reality. I don't see SS being abolished anytime soon, do you? It can be made a lot more feasible and efficient, without a doubt.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #50
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Yes, but let's deal in reality. I don't see SS being abolished anytime soon, do you? It can be made a lot more feasible and efficient, without a doubt.
That's the point, it can be better. My point along with Ryan's is he only received two years, which is a scam. I do not want the government in charge of my money, anyone with an understanding of how SS works should want out.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:07 PM   #51
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That's the point, it can be better. My point along with Ryan's is he only received two years, which is a scam. I do not want the government in charge of my money, anyone with an understanding of how SS works should want out.
Some may view it as a scam, but that can be said about anything. People invest in the stock market and when it tanks, everyone is screaming "scam!"

I've got a better than average understanding of how it works, and if I had my way I would invest it myself. However, this goes back to my original point....do you honestly see that happening at any point in the near future?


I, personally, do not. So, at this point I want to see improvements made to it. Push back the retirement age for people under 40. Block it from being raided by other areas of the government. Limit how many people can benefit off of it...my example in an earlier post is a poster child of this.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:12 PM   #52
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Some may view it as a scam, but that can be said about anything. People invest in the stock market and when it tanks, everyone is screaming "scam!"

I've got a better than average understanding of how it works, and if I had my way I would invest it myself. However, this goes back to my original point....do you honestly see that happening at any point in the near future?


I, personally, do not. So, at this point I want to see improvements made to it. Push back the retirement age for people under 40. Block it from being raided by other areas of the government. Limit how many people can benefit off of it...my example in an earlier post is a poster child of this.
At least with the stock market, one can with draw and the asset has an owner.

I would love to see it go away as well, like OP in here some people cannot wrap their mind around it. Anytime someone mentions any change to it Democrats go crazy spinning it.

Limiting people on withdrawals would be nice. Which pres borrowed money from SS?
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:15 PM   #53
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can we all agree that without SS ryan's father would not have saved a dime. upon his death he would not have left anything to paul, who would not have been able to attend college and most likely paul would be a drug addict sucking dick for crack on Milwaukee's south side.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:21 PM   #54
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At least with the stock market, one can with draw and the asset has an owner.

I would love to see it go away as well, like OP in here some people cannot wrap their mind around it. Anytime someone mentions any change to it Democrats go crazy spinning it.

Limiting people on withdrawals would be nice. Which pres borrowed money from SS?
The POTUS doesn't have the power to borrow/spend like that. It's congress that holds the reins. Morever, I'm honestly not sure the first time it occurred, but it was a while ago if I'm remembering correctly.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:49 PM   #55
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You make it sound like mutual funds are fail safe and a sure thing. Are they?
I'd rather take my chances and be able to control at least a little bit more of the money that I spend precious time of my life working for. Lets face we all need money to live in our society whether you like it or not. I'm not sure about you but I'm independent and can figure out most things for myself while being successful.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:52 PM   #56
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can we all agree that without SS ryan's father would not have saved a dime. upon his death he would not have left anything to paul, who would not have been able to attend college and most likely paul would be a drug addict sucking dick for crack on Milwaukee's south side.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:54 PM   #57
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He was trying to avoid being racist but I think I can figure who he is referencing and you just laughed at it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:15 PM   #58
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He was trying to avoid being racist but I think I can figure who he is referencing and you just laughed at it.
that's what you got out of it?, now i'm laughing at you
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:30 PM   #59
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The POTUS doesn't have the power to borrow/spend like that. It's congress that holds the reins. Morever, I'm honestly not sure the first time it occurred, but it was a while ago if I'm remembering correctly.
I aware, didn't feel typing it all out.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:18 PM   #60
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can we all agree that without SS ryan's father would not have saved a dime. upon his death he would not have left anything to paul, who would not have been able to attend college and most likely paul would be a drug addict sucking dick for crack on Milwaukee's south side.
Maybe. My bet is on that it's your dick he would be sucking.

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