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Old 01-28-2013, 05:39 PM   #81
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Then why are these guys quoting dates and sh!t, talking like ASC and DSC are different?

"I have a 2000 328CI with ASC. I can't remember the cut off date of the change though. I think the 2000's built in 1999 had ASC I believe. Mine was built in October 1999." - Some guy in the thread
"In 2000 some time it changed to DSC. I've seen a few select 2000 323i's with an ASC button." -another guy in the thread
DSC is a newer version of ASC traction control. Basically ASC only brakes the rear wheels during straight line acceleration to keep the wheels from spinning and losing traction. DSC combines those features with additional ability to individual brake each of the 4 wheels is slippage (oversteer/understeer) is sensed in a corner to bring you back in line.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:43 PM   #82
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Lol so they're not the same thing...

Which brings me to my original question of why my '02 has ASC while these guys with 00's have DSC.

So Im guessing it was an option and the original owner cheaped out.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:47 PM   #83
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Lol so they're not the same thing...

Which brings me to my original question of why my '02 has ASC while these guys with 00's have DSC.

So Im guessing it was an option and the original owner cheaped out.
Correct. DSC was an option that the original owner of your car bypassed. When my father purchased our 2000 323i new, he payed extra to have DSC.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:50 PM   #84
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Canada. I think ASC was an option.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:51 PM   #85
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Canada. Americas Hat..
..
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:54 PM   #86
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OP post a picture of your tire tread
Getting new tires today.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:55 PM   #87
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:56 PM   #88
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Canada. I think ASC was an option.
You mean DSC, yeah?
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:56 PM   #89
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How about not shutting the DSC off. This never would have happened if your DSC was on...
Note taken
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:59 PM   #90
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Correct. DSC was an option that the original owner of your car bypassed. When my father purchased our 2000 323i new, he payed extra to have DSC.
Thanks. Damn cheap owner, got all the superficial upgrades :lol:
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:00 PM   #91
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I love the people saying that you cannot overcome DSC (or any 4 wheel ABS stability control system for that matter, BMW's is not special) you can, but yes it takes the right circumstances.
OP found those circumstances, and poor tire tread combined with excessive speed amplified the effect of it.
I have personally spun a car with 4 wheel ABS/stability control with the system on, at low speed too, maybe 40 mph on wet asphalt, I had to use the handbrake, but that's not much different from a loss of traction from hydroplaning.

Stability control is good, but it can't ignore physics. When you get a car rotating hard and fast enough, no amount of braking on any combination of wheels will be able to save it.

and you do have to counter steer for DSC to work well, it is ONLY an 'assist' albeit a very good one.

also, about the throttle comment, when the system's active you usually can't do anything worth while with the engine as torque is limited my the system when wheel slip/ difference in rotation speed is detected.

watermelon-tire-racer-man, the point wasn't if you could overcome DSC on near perfect wet or dry pavement, but if it could be overcome when you add in a speed bump that the system can't anticipate.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:03 PM   #92
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Thanks. Damn cheap owner, got all the superficial upgrades :lol:
I suppose some people would rather put money towards being flashy than put money towards hopefully not sliding into a tree. However, if he just walked into the dealership one day and fell in love with the car right away, he may have not even thought about DSC.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:33 PM   #93
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I have an October 1999 production 323i with dsc. Oh and yesterday there was a big rain storm in Hawaii, roads were flooded a couple inches. Driving through the rain at 10mph, and yeah Hawaii drivers are sh!tty but when it's raining they're pretty good lol.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:33 PM   #94
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I love the people saying that you cannot overcome DSC (or any 4 wheel ABS stability control system for that matter, BMW's is not special) you can, but yes it takes the right circumstances.
OP found those.
Not that I disagree with you, but OP admitted to shutting off the DSC.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:36 PM   #95
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I have an October 1999 production 323i with dsc. Oh and yesterday there was a big rain storm in Hawaii, roads were flooded a couple inches. Driving through the rain at 10mph, and yeah Hawaii drivers are sh!tty but when it's raining they're pretty good lol.
Yes, DSC was an option that the original owner (whomever that may be) of the vehicle paid for. And no offense but how is a rain storm in Hawaii relevant?
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:52 PM   #96
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Well I always have the DSC light turned on because I though that meant its on but apparently not.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:08 PM   #97
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DSC is a newer version of ASC traction control. Basically ASC only brakes the rear wheels during straight line acceleration to keep the wheels from spinning and losing traction. DSC combines those features with additional ability to individual brake each of the 4 wheels is slippage (oversteer/understeer) is sensed in a corner to bring you back in line.
ASC doesn't apply any brakes, it just cuts the throttle. It's the simplest and best traction control. ASC is also part of DSC.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:16 PM   #98
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Not that I disagree with you, but OP admitted to shutting off the DSC.
musta missed that, can't help him there.


owners manuals exist for a reason.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:33 PM   #99
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it is the same thing.
No it isn't. Not even close. I have extensive experience with both.


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ASC doesn't apply any brakes, it just cuts the throttle. It's the simplest and best traction control. ASC is also part of DSC.
Yes it does. You can "mod" ASC by gutting its flap/throttle body assembly but leaving the sensor plugged in (at least on E36s). It's just that the braking done by ASC is marginally effective at best- and IIRC only on the driven wheels as Griffin said.

ASC can sometimes cause a car to get stuck. It is slow and an argument can be made to shut it off in poor weather if you're a good driver.

DSC is very smart, relatively unobtrusive, and should never be shut off unless you're on the track or in an empty parking lot.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:53 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by rossisboss View Post
I love the people saying that you cannot overcome DSC (or any 4 wheel ABS stability control system for that matter, BMW's is not special) you can, but yes it takes the right circumstances.
OP found those circumstances, and poor tire tread combined with excessive speed amplified the effect of it.
I have personally spun a car with 4 wheel ABS/stability control with the system on, at low speed too, maybe 40 mph on wet asphalt, I had to use the handbrake, but that's not much different from a loss of traction from hydroplaning.

Stability control is good, but it can't ignore physics. When you get a car rotating hard and fast enough, no amount of braking on any combination of wheels will be able to save it.

and you do have to counter steer for DSC to work well, it is ONLY an 'assist' albeit a very good one.

also, about the throttle comment, when the system's active you usually can't do anything worth while with the engine as torque is limited my the system when wheel slip/ difference in rotation speed is detected.

watermelon-tire-racer-man, the point wasn't if you could overcome DSC on near perfect wet or dry pavement, but if it could be overcome when you add in a speed bump that the system can't anticipate.
This post is so stupid that it actually makes me angry. First of all, OP had dsc off. So him loosing traction has absolutely nothing to do with the capabilities of the dsc system.
Secondly, the fact that you can spin your car with your handbrake mean absolutely nothing. You've essentially disabled your dsc by using it and it cannot function properly when you do that. So your argument holds no value.
And lastly, counter steering does not help the dsc reaction at all. It is not designed to react better, or worse with your input. It reacts as it should, no matter what counter actions you try.
You can still slide off the road with it on. You can still loose control. The main goal is to keep your car straight.

You need to do a LOT more research on dsc and ESP systems before you come in here and talk about how "you kan totally spin yo car with dsc. just pull the handbrake yo"

Yes. If a car start swaying left and right, the system cannot overcome the physics of that. That's just how it is.
The dsc system is smart enough to never let the car get that sideways.
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