E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-02-2013, 12:53 AM   #21
lrinco01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arlington,TX -- Afghanistan
Posts: 986
My Ride: 01HPF Stg2 M3, 11'X5
Send a message via Yahoo to lrinco01 Send a message via Skype™ to lrinco01
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by STORMER View Post
..... What?!

Regardless of the business end it still was a showcase machine, all the effort and licensing blah blah just to drop it now?

No support from me
Stormer, he is still keeping the Track car.

THAT is the real "showcase machine" for the HPF S54 offerings.

IMO, the Drag car went too far off the S54 Platform reservation at least 18 months ago.
__________________
Leonel Aka " Rico"
BMWCCA # 403748
01 BMW E46 M3 / 6 SPD / Tiag / Imola
HPF Stg.2 on the new Pt6766 Turbo/ Open Dump/ AA Lightweight flywheel/ Aggressive Tune good for 661 RWHP!

2012 X5D 3.5i - Family hauler
2000 323ci - work in progress - wife's D/D
2010 Toyota Tundra 5.7L LTD, Fully optioned up......soon TRD supercharged

FOR SALE:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727953
lrinco01 is online now  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:00 PM   #22
iwantto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 20
My Ride: 46
Myself and others for years complained about the ridiculously overpriced kits and components. Now a better turbo kit is coming to market that's when you'll see HPF turbo kit prices drop. For me and maybe others it won't make a difference I won't go the HPF route. I will say the customer service at HPF is amazing but at the end of the day cost and product quality wins. Chris has done amazing things for the M3 community...sorry HPF fan boys your day is coming to a close.
iwantto is offline  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:17 PM   #23
HPF Chris
Past Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,684
My Ride: 2002 M3, 2006 530i
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantto View Post
Myself and others for years complained about the ridiculously overpriced kits and components. Now a better turbo kit is coming to market that's when you'll see HPF turbo kit prices drop. For me and maybe others it won't make a difference I won't go the HPF route. I will say the customer service at HPF is amazing but at the end of the day cost and product quality wins. Chris has done amazing things for the M3 community...sorry HPF fan boys your day is coming to a close.
Thanks for the compliments. We're definitely not leaving the M3 market, that's for sure. This week alone we finished 2 more M3's and 2 Supras and still have 4 more M3's in the shop getting work done. You haven't seen me on the forums much because I'm a computer programmer and have been working on our web-site solid since November. I'll keep you guys posted with the sale of the drag M3. The new owner will get quite the experience.

Chris.
HPF Chris is offline  
Old 02-02-2013, 02:47 PM   #24
forcefedvw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 415
My Ride: 03' Z4 '00 VW
Sell it and reinvest in your business, Smart move !!
__________________


Innovative Performance

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Innova...609652?sk=info
2JZ-GTE Conversions & GM LS-Engine Conversions
forcefedvw is offline  
Old 02-02-2013, 08:34 PM   #25
MarcusLSB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,366
My Ride: BMW's
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantto View Post
Myself and others for years complained about the ridiculously overpriced kits and components. Now a better turbo kit is coming to market that's when you'll see HPF turbo kit prices drop. For me and maybe others it won't make a difference I won't go the HPF route. I will say the customer service at HPF is amazing but at the end of the day cost and product quality wins. Chris has done amazing things for the M3 community...sorry HPF fan boys your day is coming to a close.
Comments like this annoy me.. fan of HPF or not.. the kits are not overpriced. JP put a great deal of time engineering every component of that kit.. each piece looks like it belongs there and is well done.. rapid prototyping, cad designing, production runs, etc.. all very costly.

Others will make kits that cost less because they're hand made, or don't have custom cad designed brackets/etc.. and they may very well likely run just as well but anyone who would want to make a kit that competes with HPF's fit/finish is going to wind up having to charge the same amount, if not more (being the big rush of those purchasing turbo kits for e46 m3's has already occurred).

Lets say HPF makes $5k on each stage 1 sold.. if they were to cut the prices from (what is it $14k?) to say $11k .. they would need to sell FIVE TIMES AS MANY KITS (or like 750 kits) to make the same amount they made selling 150 kits at $14k. (I'm speaking rather 'general' here, but you get the idea).

I think they priced their kits pretty well all things considered. Yes, as you get up into the stage 3+'s it starts getting ridiculous, and I'm sure they make way more than $5k on those kits.. but how many do they sell? Maybe 10% or so are Stage 3+?

Remember, these cars NEW were $50k+ .. spending another $15k to make double the power isn't to shabby..

But then again you can pick up an E46 M3 for less than a new Jetta so I guess the customer base has changed.
__________________


youtube.com/marcuslsb -- Check out photography by Gheybe!

New Build by Lab22

MarcusLSB is offline  
Old 02-02-2013, 09:26 PM   #26
FragNasty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 171
My Ride: Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusLSB View Post
Comments like this annoy me.. fan of HPF or not.. the kits are not overpriced. JP put a great deal of time engineering every component of that kit.. each piece looks like it belongs there and is well done.. rapid prototyping, cad designing, production runs, etc.. all very costly.

Others will make kits that cost less because they're hand made, or don't have custom cad designed brackets/etc.. and they may very well likely run just as well but anyone who would want to make a kit that competes with HPF's fit/finish is going to wind up having to charge the same amount, if not more (being the big rush of those purchasing turbo kits for e46 m3's has already occurred).

Lets say HPF makes $5k on each stage 1 sold.. if they were to cut the prices from (what is it $14k?) to say $11k .. they would need to sell FIVE TIMES AS MANY KITS (or like 750 kits) to make the same amount they made selling 150 kits at $14k. (I'm speaking rather 'general' here, but you get the idea).

I think they priced their kits pretty well all things considered. Yes, as you get up into the stage 3+'s it starts getting ridiculous, and I'm sure they make way more than $5k on those kits.. but how many do they sell? Maybe 10% or so are Stage 3+?

Remember, these cars NEW were $50k+ .. spending another $15k to make double the power isn't to shabby..

But then again you can pick up an E46 M3 for less than a new Jetta so I guess the customer base has changed.
+1

The M3 is a niche market; you don't have nearly as many M3s around as you do Civics, Camrys or the like. That means your economies of scale can't depend on the wider market base. And even if the customer base has changed, the E46 M3 is a discontinued line and will only tend to get harder to find. A specialty item like this turbo kit is always going to be a an item that demands a price premium because of it's differentiation.

If you look at a more common platform like an S4, Evo or WRX, kits are likely to be much less expensive... depending on what you are looking at doing of course.
FragNasty is online now  
Old 02-02-2013, 10:11 PM   #27
MarcusLSB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,366
My Ride: BMW's
Quote:
Originally Posted by FragNasty View Post
+1

The M3 is a niche market; you don't have nearly as many M3s around as you do Civics, Camrys or the like. That means your economies of scale can't depend on the wider market base. And even if the customer base has changed, the E46 M3 is a discontinued line and will only tend to get harder to find. A specialty item like this turbo kit is always going to be a an item that demands a price premium because of it's differentiation.

If you look at a more common platform like an S4, Evo or WRX, kits are likely to be much less expensive... depending on what you are looking at doing of course.
Exactly, and most kits aren't of the same caliber as the HPF kit. Someone who hand builds each component makes less per kit, but has less initial costs.. those like HPF who engineered in cad most of the parts have high setup fee's for machining, and production.. often wiping the profits out of the first 10+ kits.. and worse they can't really mass produce the parts to keep the setup/machining costs down.. likely ordering parts in batches of 10 or 20 as opposed to making a risky assumption that they'll sell say 100 kits and ordering 100 manifolds, etc and then sitting on hundreds of thousands of inventory until it sells out, only to widen the profit margin by a few points.

I may not be a fan of Chris or how my situation went down but truth is building a kit to the caliber of the HPF kit is no easy task, and its risky. When Chris built the first HPF Turbo kit Active Autowerks had already been building turbo bmw kits (years prior) and stopped doing it because of the complexities and costs. Chris was taking a very big risk.. it clearly paid off.. but hindsight is 20/20.
__________________


youtube.com/marcuslsb -- Check out photography by Gheybe!

New Build by Lab22

MarcusLSB is offline  
Old 02-03-2013, 03:52 AM   #28
lrinco01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arlington,TX -- Afghanistan
Posts: 986
My Ride: 01HPF Stg2 M3, 11'X5
Send a message via Yahoo to lrinco01 Send a message via Skype™ to lrinco01
Wink I Agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusLSB View Post
Comments like this annoy me.. fan of HPF or not.. the kits are not overpriced. JP put a great deal of time engineering every component of that kit.. each piece looks like it belongs there and is well done.. rapid prototyping, cad designing, production runs, etc.. all very costly.

Others will make kits that cost less because they're hand made, or don't have custom cad designed brackets/etc.. and they may very well likely run just as well but anyone who would want to make a kit that competes with HPF's fit/finish is going to wind up having to charge the same amount, if not more (being the big rush of those purchasing turbo kits for e46 m3's has already occurred).

Lets say HPF makes $5k on each stage 1 sold.. if they were to cut the prices from (what is it $14k?) to say $11k .. they would need to sell FIVE TIMES AS MANY KITS (or like 750 kits) to make the same amount they made selling 150 kits at $14k. (I'm speaking rather 'general' here, but you get the idea).

I think they priced their kits pretty well all things considered. Yes, as you get up into the stage 3+'s it starts getting ridiculous, and I'm sure they make way more than $5k on those kits.. but how many do they sell? Maybe 10% or so are Stage 3+?

Remember, these cars NEW were $50k+ .. spending another $15k to make double the power isn't to shabby..

But then again you can pick up an E46 M3 for less than a new Jetta so I guess the customer base has changed.

^^^^^^^ well said marcus ^^^^^^^

I too agree
__________________
Leonel Aka " Rico"
BMWCCA # 403748
01 BMW E46 M3 / 6 SPD / Tiag / Imola
HPF Stg.2 on the new Pt6766 Turbo/ Open Dump/ AA Lightweight flywheel/ Aggressive Tune good for 661 RWHP!

2012 X5D 3.5i - Family hauler
2000 323ci - work in progress - wife's D/D
2010 Toyota Tundra 5.7L LTD, Fully optioned up......soon TRD supercharged

FOR SALE:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727953
lrinco01 is online now  
Old 02-03-2013, 04:19 AM   #29
E85head
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Car
Posts: 178
My Ride: E46 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusLSB View Post
Exactly, and most kits aren't of the same caliber as the HPF kit. Someone who hand builds each component makes less per kit, but has less initial costs.. those like HPF who engineered in cad most of the parts have high setup fee's for machining, and production.. often wiping the profits out of the first 10+ kits.. and worse they can't really mass produce the parts to keep the setup/machining costs down.. likely ordering parts in batches of 10 or 20 as opposed to making a risky assumption that they'll sell say 100 kits and ordering 100 manifolds, etc and then sitting on hundreds of thousands of inventory until it sells out, only to widen the profit margin by a few points.

I may not be a fan of Chris or how my situation went down but truth is building a kit to the caliber of the HPF kit is no easy task, and its risky. When Chris built the first HPF Turbo kit Active Autowerks had already been building turbo bmw kits (years prior) and stopped doing it because of the complexities and costs. Chris was taking a very big risk.. it clearly paid off.. but hindsight is 20/20.
Kits for the e36 m3 costs about half compared to the e46. As the average owner become younger, i believe the demand for affordable performance upgrades is going to be there!

That prices will drop as the competition rise is only natural. How the quality will be for the less expensive options, only time will tell!

HPF have great customer service, high quality parts, and following their development is very thrilling! Thumbsup Chris!
E85head is offline  
Old 02-03-2013, 04:21 AM   #30
Twin_Turbo_S54
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 656
My Ride: M3
Chris,

Good luck with the sale.

If our laws would allow import of second hand cars, I would have bought it the minute I read it. We cant import 2nd hand cars

Hope the next owner will raise the E46 M3 bar.
__________________
E46 M3 Sedan All Wheel Drive Twin Turbo 1200 whp
E46 M3 Coupe Turbo 60-130 mph 4,2 seconds (2011)
E46 330 xi Mora Metallic
Twin_Turbo_S54 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use