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Old 02-07-2013, 10:22 PM   #21
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That many so-called pacifists are just as violence-inclined as anybody else, albeit in a more passive-aggressive, repressed, hyporcritical sort of way?

Like you said, craziness knows no political affiliation. And I agree. But as I focused in the o.p., it's the selective /reporting/ that is troublesome. Or are you fine with reporting that is edited, truncated, or rearranged in way that it no longer paints a complete or true picture?

(edit: "a sourced named "soopermexican" isn't one I'm going to put a ton of faith in" <--- only because you're RAAAACIST. No, not really. I understand a hesitation to put faith in something you haven't heard of before. Wikileaks, you have heard of though.)
Probably a reason no one has heard of soopermexican. Just glance at the titles on his blog. And you try and point at the media for being liberal with an agenda when you get your news from this guy.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:22 PM   #22
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But as I stated in the o.p. this isn't about his crimes or manhunt, that's covered in the thead in Main OT. This is about hiding his expression of love and appreciation for gun control, Obama, Biden, Chris Matthews, Hillary, Bill for that matter, and many things lefty and liberal.

As AoG pointed out, when Loughter shot up the Giffords rally, there was a rush by the media to paint the kid as a Limbaugh listening radical conservative, who did so because of one of many cross-hairs put a tv map electoral seats the GOP needed to focus on to take the House. But it turns out that wasn't the case at all. Yet Dorner spouts all sorts of lefty gushing in his manifesto of discontent and the reasons behind his actions, the media *hides* his social and political concerns. A bit of a double-standard, isn't it?

Did outlets say they were publishing an incomplete manifesto? No. Did they say they were removing parts of it because they felt it didn't relate to the killings? No. The presented it as if in entirety, with only names of private citizens removed.... which isn't the case. Again, are you okay with selective reporting as a whole? Or are you okay, on a selective basis, with selective reporting?
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:25 PM   #23
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You do realize fascism is a far right ideology? Hitler, Stalin.....both fascists.
Not true at all. While fascist, both Stalin and Hitler were quite "progressive" in their respective political climates. How so? Because facism/anarchism is a different scale that liberal/conservative. There's a pretty cool Venn-esque diagram floating around out there, highlighting were all sorts of ideologies fall, but this is all I could find in 30 seconds I was willing to spend.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:26 PM   #24
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But as I stated in the o.p. this isn't about his crimes or manhunt, that's covered in the thead in Main OT. This is about hiding his expression of love and appreciation for gun control, Obama, Biden, Chris Matthews, Hillary, Bill for that matter, and many things lefty and liberal.

As AoG pointed out, when Loughter shot up the Giffords rally, there was a rush by the media to paint the kid as a Limbaugh listening radical conservative, who did so because of one of many cross-hairs put a tv map electoral seats the GOP needed to focus on to take the House. But it turns out that wasn't the case at all. Yet Dorner spouts all sorts of lefty gushing in his manifesto of discontent and the reasons behind his actions, the media *hides* his social and political concerns. A bit of a double-standard, isn't it?

Did outlets say they were publishing an incomplete manifesto? No. Did they say they were removing parts of it because they felt it didn't relate to the killings? No. The presented it as if in entirety, with only names of private citizens removed.... which isn't the case. Again, are you okay with selective reporting as a whole? Or are you okay, on a selective basis, with selective reporting?
His political affiliation has nothing to do with this.

Loughner shot a politician, so obviously there was a question of what his political affiliation may have been as it was directly related.

Am I okay with selective reporting or reporting the relevant?

oh btw....which "lefty" news organizations are you watching because both Erin Burnett and Anderson Cooper mentioned the many ramblings within the manifesto--including Ellen, the LGBT community, the Obamas, etc. Let me guess though...you didn't watch them. You only took what soopermexican said and ran with it?
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:27 PM   #25
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I can't believe that you would believe anything AOG posts here.
I don't believe anything AOG says. You can add NFRS2000nyc, Kaput, and Chase to that list aswell.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:54 PM   #26
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I don't believe anything AOG says. You can add NFRS2000nyc, Kaput, and Chase to that list aswell.
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Zimmerman doesn't need to worry about liberals.
there
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:29 PM   #27
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there


He needs to worry about Martin's friends & family.

Capiche?
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:52 PM   #28
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He needs to worry about Martin's friends & family.

Capiche?
Statistically, they are liberals
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:11 AM   #29
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Capiche?
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No

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Old 02-08-2013, 12:12 AM   #30
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You do realize fascism is a far right ideology? Hitler, Stalin.....both fascists. Not that it matters, really......the political spectrum arches in towards itself at the far extremes.

In any event, taking a scoreboard mentality of far right whack jobs vs. far left whack jobs does nothing but set the conversation back and off track, in my opinion.
Hitler was also definitely a Christian. He thought he was doing God's work. I'd argue more on his religious ideology than his political intent. Religion has more of a role in that case, as it does with most bullshit in society.

Adult fairy tales are fun.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:17 AM   #31
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Hitler was also definitely a Christian. He thought he was doing God's work. I'd argue more on his religious ideology than his political intent. Religion has more of a role in that case, as it does with most bullshit in society.

Adult fairy tales are fun.
Seems conflicting accounts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...f_Adolf_Hitler

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Scholarly opinion

According to Max Domarus Hitler promoted the idea of God as the creator of Germany, but Hitler "was not a Christian in any accepted meaning of that word."[52] Domarus also points out that Hitler did not believe in organized religion and did not see himself as a religious reformer.[52] According to historian Laurence Rees, "Hitler did not believe in the afterlife, but he did believe he would have a life after death because of what he had achieved."[53] Historian Richard Overy maintains that Hitler was not a "practising Christian," nor was he a "thorough atheist."[54] According to Robert S. Wistrich Hitler thought Christianity was finished but he did not want any direct confrontation for strategic reasons.[55] Samuel Koehne, a Research Fellow at the Alfred Deakin Research Institute, working on the official Nazi views on religion, answers the question Was Hitler a Christian? thus: "Emphatically not, if we consider Christianity in its traditional or orthodox form: Jesus as the son of God, dying for the redemption of the sins of all humankind. It is a nonsense to state that Hitler (or any of the Nazis) adhered to Christianity of this form."[56] Koehne says Hitler was probably not an atheist and refers to the fact that recent works have asserted that he was a deist.[56] Richard Evans concluded his statements on Hitler's religious views by suggesting that the gap between Hitler's public and private pronouncements was due to a desire not to cause a quarrel with the churches that might undermine national unity.[49]
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:11 AM   #32
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Read some of his speeches and it becomes pretty apparant that he believed in some form of a Christian god.

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

Point 24 from the Workers Party Programme

24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health from within only on the principle: the common interest before self-interest. "


On the flip side I've read plenty of accounts saying while he may have talked about Christianity, he couldn't be a true Christian because of his acts which is a classic no true Scotsman argument.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:36 AM   #33
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Read some of his speeches and it becomes pretty apparant that he believed in some form of a Christian god.

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

Point 24 from the Workers Party Programme

24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health from within only on the principle: the common interest before self-interest. "


On the flip side I've read plenty of accounts saying while he may have talked about Christianity, he couldn't be a true Christian because of his acts which is a classic no true Scotsman argument.
Either way, I felt like Zell was painting him as a god crusader-type as if he was some sort of evangelical...which he certainly was not.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:33 AM   #34
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What political affiliation are most gang members?
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:48 AM   #35
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Last time I checked crazy knows no political affiliation, but if a psychopaths political leanings make you feel better about yourself, go for it.
And yet, if this guy was murdering gays, bombing abortion clinics, or assaulting high profile obama supporters, it would be ALL over the news that a republican nut job with a gun was.....

Don't even pretend that isn't the case.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:50 AM   #36
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What does mark Levin think about it?
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:24 AM   #37
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What political affiliation are most gang members?
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:02 AM   #38
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:08 AM   #39
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Either way, I felt like Zell was painting him as a god crusader-type as if he was some sort of evangelical...which he certainly was not.
Regardless if Hitler was a Christian or believed in any god is of little important. His invocation of religion influenced individuals to commit atrocities. I think that is scary. Not how religion influences one man, but how it can influence an entire society to commit awful acts.

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And yet, if this guy was murdering gays, bombing abortion clinics, or assaulting high profile obama supporters, it would be ALL over the news that a republican nut job with a gun was.....

Don't even pretend that isn't the case.
We can only hope.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:49 AM   #40
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Regardless if Hitler was a Christian or believed in any god is of little important. His invocation of religion influenced individuals to commit atrocities. I think that is scary. Not how religion influences one man, but how it can influence an entire society to commit awful acts.



We can only hope.
It was my understanding that the driving force of the Nazi movement was nationalism and scapegoating, this wasn't a crusade nor was it sold as one.

A lot of you are missing the point here. You write "We can only hope" in response to what Chase said but you're completely ignored his valid statement. It goes a little something like this:

Shooting/murder/bad thing happens

If shooter is tea party/white/conservative: His beliefs are why he did it
If shooter is black/liberal/democrat: crazy is crazy, who cares what his beliefs are.

It is quite obvious, I suspect you are engaging in willful blindness.
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