Subframe Repairs - Who has had it done?

Sorry to hear mate.

Originally Posted by DesiredM

I got it from a dealer in VIC but had to sign a stat warranty waver form to get my 5 year warranty. I've had it just over 3 months :s

sounds dodgy? signing away legal right for the excellent 3 month warranty to get a 5 year warranty not worth the paper its written on?

I'd argue fit for purpose, that the car had cracked mounts when you bought it (which it would have) and that they sold you an unroadworthy car.

Either way try to get it fixed through BMW under the 10 year body guarantee etc because their fix is to replace the floor.

Originally Posted by CortinaD

sounds dodgy? signing away legal right for the excellent 3 month warranty to get a 5 year warranty not worth the paper its written on?

I'd argue fit for purpose, that the car had cracked mounts when you bought it (which it would have) and that they sold you an unroadworthy car.

Either way try to get it fixed through BMW under the 10 year body guarantee etc because their fix is to replace the floor.

Yeah I thought so to but didn't think twice about it, and I think I'm screwed because my car was built oct 02, first registered jan of 03 though

Im not sure on a how a stat warranty waver works. However the law is quite clear that a dealer cannot sell you an un-roadworthy vehicle. If it is un-roadworthy (which it is) the dealer has the choice of repairing it for you OR refunding in FULL your money.

Id really try that angle! Maybe call a lawyer and see what your rights are given the paper you signed.

Goodluck.

Also just thought id add, a Private seller cannot "knowingly" sell you an un-roadworthy vehicle either. They must disclose that the car is un-roadworthy. Problem with this is that you as the buyer have to prove that the seller knew it was un-roadworthy at the time of sale.

Hope that makes sense.

Originally Posted by DesiredM

Yeah I thought so to but didn't think twice about it, and I think I'm screwed because my car was built oct 02, first registered jan of 03 though

The whole "fit for purpose" in my experience will generally take precedence over date to some degree but I am not a lawyer.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Bu...guarantee.html

Give it a go - it can't hurt.

I've called the dealer just now and said he has breeched that stat warranty - I signed a waiver voiding my cooling off period not stat warranty so by law it looks like I'm still covered as I have driven less then 5000kms since purchase and I purchased the car 1 month within the 10 years from manufacture date so I meet the requirements.

My only issue is his mechanic passed the car and stated there were no cracks at all and will back that up where as my mechanic stated that the cracks are all about 5cm long and there is no way they have gotten like that after only 2 months of ownership. So it's his word against mine, and the dealer stated he won't repair it or consider it unless I send the car down to him to have a look at it which means I'd have to send it down to him which I don't want to do. I'm not sure where to go from here? Any suggestions?

Id ask what their process is on looking for the cracks and what equipment they used to check. Because where your cracks are located, you cant see that mount when you car is on a hoist (you can only see the 2 rear mounts). You can ONLY see the front 2 mounts with a cavity camera. - Try catching them out?

Also,

You said you took your car to BMW where they found the cracks? If so ask him (the BMW Dealer) if he is willing to sign a piece of paper that states that in his "X" amount of years of experience as a BMW Dealer/Mechanic, it would be impossible for these cracks to appear within the km's travelled. And that he has dealt and has vast experience with subframe issues before.

Originally Posted by Honro

Id ask what their process is on looking for the cracks and what equipment they used to check. Because where your cracks are located, you cant see that mount when you car is on a hoist (you can only see the 2 rear mounts). You can ONLY see the front 2 mounts with a cavity camera. - Try catching them out?

Also,

You said you took your car to BMW where they found the cracks? If so ask him (the BMW Dealer) if he is willing to sign a piece of paper that states that in his "X" amount of years of experience as a BMW Dealer/Mechanic, it would be impossible for these cracks to appear within the km's travelled. And that he has dealt and has vast experience with subframe issues before.

Yeah the dealer said it was a visual inspection and his mechanic is qualified however I don't believe that. My mechanic isn't an actual dealer he is the owner of BEMW (BE-M-W) in castle hill so I could ask him if he could write something about it I'm sure he would be happy to. Maybe I should take it to a BMW dealer for them to inspect this and give me their opinion as well?

You could take it to BMW - but I wouldn't ask them to see "IF" there are cracks. Id tell them you have been told there are cracks, and you would like a second opinion and MAKE SURE YOU GET THEM TO TAKE PHOTOS!!!. And that you would like to know if they are aware of the subframe issue (id approach them on that angle because you want them on your side). As the BMW dealers may go on the defensive.

Then ask them how familiar they are with the issue and if they are willing to sign a document like ive mentioned above. So you can go back to where you had purchased it.

I personally would go to bmw, get pics and a statement from BMW & your mechanic, then seek some legal advice. If you like i can help you with the legal firm, I used the same solicitors that CortinaD? did, and they are very professional and they have dealt and are very aware of this problem. Id ask what your chances are of returning the car / have the dealer fix it or have BMW fix it.

TBH you need to be smart about this. Because your between a rock and a tight place. Theoretically your not legally allowed to "knowingly" sell a non-roadworthy car, yes there is not much chance the buyer would find out. But if they did ive been told the penalty is quite hefty.

Your only other way out is to trade the car in for something else, which of course will leave you well out of pocket. :/

Good Luck!

Thanks for the help Honro, I will certainly go to a BMW dealer to get photos and a statement and then contact the dealer again (I spoke to him already and he was shocked and reasoned with me making out like he would help me out, then I told him how much it would cost and he was like ill call my mechanic to see what he says. He then called me back stating his mechanic said there were no cracks and that it was my fault - I said the size of the cracks cannot occur over 2 months there is no way he then asked me to call him back Monday Morning). So ill contact BMW and get them to inspect it and give their opinion then contact legal aid NSW and see what my options are and then I will follow on from there. I will certainly look into it and contact you for your lawyers if the dealer refuses the repair.

Just bumping an ongoing issue. I've had a pretty good look under my car after a thorough degreasing/pressure clean and cant visually see any cracks. However, I'm getting numerous things replaced in the rear end in a few weeks, putting in AKG subframe bushings for a start, new OEM rear diff plate cover/bushings, another front CSB bushing with the revised bolt. Obviously this means the whole subframe has to come out. I'm going to get it all inspected then, and ask to be present to see it for myself. This is all being done at a BMW dealer, been there a few times now for services and some other work.
I read on M3 cutters that BMW UK will do the epoxy fix out of good will even if theres no cracks. Should I be hitting them up for the fix even if theres no cracks? Anyone had any luck with that here in Aus?

Originally Posted by kook

Just bumping an ongoing issue. I've had a pretty good look under my car after a thorough degreasing/pressure clean and cant visually see any cracks. However, I'm getting numerous things replaced in the rear end in a few weeks, putting in AKG subframe bushings for a start, new OEM rear diff plate cover/bushings, another front CSB bushing with the revised bolt. Obviously this means the whole subframe has to come out. I'm going to get it all inspected then, and ask to be present to see it for myself. This is all being done at a BMW dealer, been there a few times now for services and some other work.
I read on M3 cutters that BMW UK will do the epoxy fix out of good will even if theres no cracks. Should I be hitting them up for the fix even if theres no cracks? Anyone had any luck with that here in Aus?

Haven't done any research on the AKG subframe bushes but I've been told that upgraded bushes in the rear puts more stress on the subframe making it more prone to cracking. Just something to keep in mind.

I've done a lot of reading on this, and a lot of the subframe cracks can actually stem from the OEM subframe bushings themselves. The OEM bushings have raised lips which contact the subframe metal when put under load. So only a very small area is contacting the car, and those small contact points happen to be right on top of some fairly significant weld points.
AKG/Powerflex bushings have no raised lips, they're flat, so they spread the load evenly over the whole area.
Here's a thread on M3Forum, started by Obioban who seems to be one very knowledgable M3 guy imo.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=411517

It also has the link to the Redish Motorsport install vids. I suggest anyone who has any interest in the subframe issues at all watch all 3 vids, lots of good info in there.

Over on the m3 forum beavis found a way to apply foam reinforcement to the front two mounts as well. He took out the seatbelt bolts and applied foam through a smaller gauge hose.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...6&postcount=71

I pulled the bolt (it's a T50 or thereabouts) and there is definitely a cavity there, it lines right up with where the front mounts are. I have the extra kits but am going to double check when I drop the subframe, take a look from underneath before I put it in.

Personally I am going the epoxy route for the TMS plates, it seems like recently several welded plates have failed from what looks to be corrosion._nr_

Originally Posted by Jall

Mine was inspected today and the report/pictures sent off to BMW AU.
Supposed to hear back by Wednesday next week. *fingers crossed*

how did you go? i'm going to do the same thing and just wondering what result you got..

Was payed for to be fixed by BMW through Superfinish Moorabbin. Was a lengthy process, and keep in mind this was 3 years ago when the car was less than 10 years old.

^ so is it true that if your car is less than 10 years old, there's a good chance BMW will pay for the repair?

Originally Posted by ating

^ so is it true that if your car is less than 10 years old, there's a good chance BMW will pay for the repair?

Not exactly they refused to do it for me, didn't even offer me a thing and I didn't want to get a legal team involved as it was to much of a headache.

So just went under my car this morning after hearing creaking from the rear and the subframe is cracked. Worse than i have seen in some google images and youtube vids.
For those who have had it fixed is there any places you reccomend I go near Rowville/Dandenong. Thanks!
oh and how far down do I need to bend over in numerical terms??