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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 02-12-2013, 01:11 AM   #21
RKiepper
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Originally Posted by rudycoop View Post
It has been extensively tested on other forums and I will say it again, 51 pages of positive results. I have been doing it and my 325 runs and idles like new.

Check it out:
http://www.ls1.com/forums/f48/been-testing-91206/
Then please supply your VIN so we can deter any future buyers of your car.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:19 AM   #22
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Your car was designed from the ground up by thousands of the worlds best engineers. They spent millions and millions of dollars to engineer it specifically for north American gasoline. Your car has a surprisingly complicated computer which is programed to use a few sensors which monitor the only variables that matter. With those variable values your car assumes that it will be running gasoline and 5w-30 oil and then decides how it will adapt a whole ton of engine variables. It's an incredibly finely tuned machine.



And you're going to put the wrong fuel in it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:24 AM   #23
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:35 AM   #24
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I have to agree with Andy2108. In addition to the hundreds of millions, if not billions that BMW spends on engine development, not to mention every other manufacturer in the world, whose development programs combined have to be in the trillions of dollars, AND, the blank check that petroleum company engineers have for fuel development, and the fact that much of this work is done by lots of men and women with PHD's hanging on their walls, it would be absolutely amazing that some guy decided to dump 2 cycle oil in his gas tank, and managed to stumble on something that works so well, yet is so simple. I don't see that happening. At best, you are doing something that just happens to not make it run worse, or that the engine controls are compensating for. Where is the documentation that proves even one of these claims? Where are the automotive system engineers that tested any of these things, and published the results? Who did long term testing and analysis to establish that any of these things are true?
It is called the placebo effect. People want to believe that these things are true, so in their minds, they become true.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:21 AM   #25
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Not that far fetched, I know ALOT of people that add a container at every fillup....on their DIESELs(specifically 7.3 and 6.0 powerstrokes).

I wouldnt recommend adding it to your gasoline powered vehicles.

I have heard and seen it on a few occasions where running a bit of ATF can clean things up due to all the "detergents", but I still wouldnt recommend it on a modern engine. An old carbeurated farm truck? Sure, throw whatever you want in there, but probably not the best idea on a new ride(granted that E46's arent that new anymore).

Last edited by Rubenk; 02-12-2013 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:32 AM   #26
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makes sense
No it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by wildirish317 View Post
And I forgot to include the statement that caused me to respond in the first place. Does 2 cycle oil have a higher btu/lb content than gasoline? If that's the case, why don't we run our engines on it to begin with? How much btu does it add to a tank of gas? How much does it cost per gallon?
Actually I think it may (not btu/lb but btu/gal). The more refined a fuel is, the lower it's energy density (in general). The "density" part of that statement is important. That is a rating of megajoules per liter (or btu/gal) whereas specific energy is megajoules per kilogram (or btu/lb). Specific energy remains about the same for all oils from crude to aviation fuel (when you start adding ethanol you get killed). Energy density has a well defined downward trend. Take these densities/specific energies for example:

Type: E Density ; Specific E

Crude Oil: 37 MJ/L ; 46.3 MJ/kg
Diesel: 35.9 MJ/L ; 43.1 MJ/kg
Gasoline: 34.2 MJ/L ; 46.4 MJ/kg
E10 "Gasohol": 33.18 MJ/L ; 43.54 MJ/kg
E85 "Gasohol": 25.65 MJ/L ; 33.1 MJ/kg

2-stroke oil is going to be somewhere between crude and diesel. It is harder to combust completely and that's part of the reason 2-stroke engines have horrible emissions (apart from the less efficient cycle). The only reason 2 stroke engines have this additive is for it's primary lubrication in the crank. I'm not going to explain the 2-stroke cycle and it's method of induction/exhaust and fuel/air mixing, but it NEEDS this oil. A 4 stroke absolutely does not.

Also, you can see why E10 and E85 suck. They do burn more efficiently and a little more cleanly, but you are getting less energy per unit volume and per unit mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rudycoop View Post
It has been extensively tested on other forums and I will say it again, 51 pages of positive results. I have been doing it and my 325 runs and idles like new.

Check it out:
http://www.ls1.com/forums/f48/been-testing-91206/
I don't care what 51 pages of the LS1 forums say (I'm not going to waste my time reading that many pages). It probably doesn't hurt anything seriously, but there is no way this increases HP or MPG. All it's going to do is foul your plugs more quickly than pure gasoline. Who knows what it may do to your cats. As far as lubricating the fuel pump, that may be true, but the pump is designed to be adequately lubricated by gasoline. Anyway, the fuel pump failure on these cars seems to be a motor issue, not an issue with the pumping mechanism itself wearing out.

All I really have to say is that there is no need for this "additive" even if it did help. Our engines last a very long time as it is with regular oil changes. That is the only oil your engine needs. The oil system adequately lubricates the engine at all times, unless the oil pump nut comes off. In that case, some 2-stroke additive is not going to help you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubenk View Post
I have heard and seen it on a few occasions where running a bit of ATF can clean things up due to all the "detergents", but I still wouldnt recommend it on a modern engine. An old carbeurated farm truck? Sure, throw whatever you want in there, but probably not the best idea on a new ride(granted that E46's arent that new anymore).
First of all, the ATF thing is a myth and that myth involves adding it to your oil, not to your gasoline.

Second, our cars may be 10 years old, but their technology matches the lower level brands made in the past few years. It's not quite as refined (VANOS problems), but BMW pioneers technology before most other car makers by several years.

Last edited by WDE46; 02-12-2013 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Auto-save 1360673525
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:01 AM   #27
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First of all, the ATF thing is a myth and that myth involves adding it to your oil, not to your gasoline.

Second, our cars may be 10 years old, but their technology matches the lower level brands made in the past few years. It's not quite as refined (VANOS problems), but BMW pioneers technology before most other car makers by several years.
Disagree on the source of the myth, my basis for it comes from growing up with Big Rigs and farm equipment, and the fellas here tend to agree: www.steelsoldiers.com, it has held true in using it in the fuel tank of my M35A2 with a Continental Multifuel engine too.

But that is irrelevant to this discussion.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:20 AM   #28
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Disagree on the source of the myth, my basis for it comes from growing up with Big Rigs and farm equipment, and the fellas here tend to agree: www.steelsoldiers.com, it has held true in using it in the fuel tank of my M35A2 with a Continental Multifuel engine too.

But that is irrelevant to this discussion.
Well, I know Chevron or Shell or one of the other larger oil companies (maybe Castrol) has an entry on their page specifically addressing ATF in the oil as a cleaner. I hadn't heard of adding it to the gasoline.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:22 AM   #29
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Us Lucas fuel injectors! Just used in my 323i And my idle is smooth and it runs great!
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:53 AM   #30
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We did this when I road in my buddies with 350hp and he switched highways at wot scared tge piss out of me felt as fast other bodies 500hp supra awesome car they are rare hopefully they will bring them back rx8s r ok but I don't like tge rear doors and odd shape and lackbof turbos
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:56 AM   #31
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We did this when I road in my buddies with 350hp and he switched highways at wot scared tge piss out of me felt as fast other bodies 500hp supra awesome car they are rare hopefully they will bring them back rx8s r ok but I don't like tge rear doors and odd shape and lackbof turbos
Nice, bringing this one back from the dead! lol
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:06 AM   #32
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2 stroke is designed for 2 stroke engines, and op, I hate to break your heart but, you moved up to an inline-6. With this said, your motor no likely 2 stroke cause it designed for 93 octane method, compadre.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:17 AM   #33
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We did this when I road in my buddies with 350hp and he switched highways at wot scared tge piss out of me felt as fast other bodies 500hp supra awesome car they are rare hopefully they will bring them back rx8s r ok but I don't like tge rear doors and odd shape and lackbof turbos
lmao, i remember this.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:32 AM   #34
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ATF has cleaning powers. I don't recommend this for anything fuel injected, as I don't know the actual effects on those systems, but my father is an old school mechanic. My chevelle sat for a few years, idled like **** after we finally got it started and then my father threw some ATF in the carb, probably like 2 cap fulls, ran like **** for like 15 minutes, smoke everywhere, he just kept revving it to keep it running until it cleared out and everything was running much better. He said it helps to clear the varnish that builds up on valves that makes them move sloppily while also cleaning the walls of the cylinders.

Now fast forward, I had an old 2 stroke weed wacker that seized up on me. Not so much that I couldn't get a revolution out of it, just very tight in the cylinder, I could barley pull it. I popped the spark plug out put a couple cap fulls of ATF in the hole and let it sit for a while, came back and pulled it a few times, it started to move freely. Put the plug back in, started it up, ran like **** for like 5-10 minutes and then it functioned like new.

I'm no scientist but if ATF is a myth that's one hell of a placebo effect.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:36 AM   #35
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Clearly the "A" in ATF stands for "assault".

Ban ATF.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:45 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Rubenk View Post
Disagree on the source of the myth, my basis for it comes from growing up with Big Rigs and farm equipment, and the fellas here tend to agree: www.steelsoldiers.com, it has held true in using it in the fuel tank of my M35A2 with a Continental Multifuel engine too.

But that is irrelevant to this discussion.
It's a total myth. ATF contains a lot of dispersants. It's been disproven time and time again.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:06 PM   #37
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You guys realize that most shops will have some kind of Motorvac that's specifically designed to clean your injection system if you're that worried about it. Mixing 2 cycle or ATF in your gas is completely retarded.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:28 PM   #38
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Clearly the "A" in ATF stands for "assault".

Ban ATF.
Might as well ban Assault Transmissions while we're at it. Think of the children!
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:44 PM   #39
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Might as well ban Assault Transmissions while we're at it. Think of the children!
Full-auto's should be banned. All vehicles now only come with a single speed manual transmission. Think of all the lives saved.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:54 PM   #40
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I run my truck at a 50:1 mixture just like my dirt bike. It even gives it a 2-stroke style powerband. I am about to buy a turbo kit on Craigslist for $650 from a guy who paid $6500 for it. I should be faster than an M5 after.
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