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Old 02-26-2013, 07:53 PM   #1
DonaldE
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Question New Fuel Filter = P0174?

First off, I've read JFOJ's threads thoroughly (super awesome, but a bit daunting)
So I'm thinking this may be coincidence, but I wanted to ask anyway.

Background:

I bought the car and immediately had the P0171/P0174 combo after driving about 50 miles away from the lot I bought the car from.
Ordered the intake hoses and DISA gold rebuild kit from G.A.S (very long thread soon followed)
Got everything all put back together and VOILA, codes are gone and not to be seen again...

That is until the other night. I just finished changing the oil (M1 0w-40), filter, and fuel filter while I was at it. Drove away from the garage, jumped on the freeway, hit the cruise control, and BAM, SES light. Stop off at Autozone check it (P0174), clear it, and it comes back on tonight after about 100 miles of freeway driving.

I'm not really sure if the two can be related, but I felt like typing it up and asking. I'm gonna replace my lower CCV hose after I get a good look at it as I think that might be the culprit, but I'm thinking it might be a good idea to tackle the fuel pump real quick as well.
Thoughts?
Donalde

P.S - I also just had my belts changed at the dealer. Unrelated, but took two seconds to mention.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:10 PM   #2
jfoj
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You need to check the freeze frame data to determine when the codes are being triggered.

If at idle, likely vacuum leak/crankcase air leak, if while cruising likely MAF and/or fuel pump.

Given you have a 330, I have seen a lot of MAF problems with 330's at cruise. Not sure if you know the MAF history on your car, is it original?? Has it been replaced??
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

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Last edited by jfoj; 02-26-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:01 PM   #3
DonaldE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
You need to check the freeze frame data to determine when the codes are being triggered.

If at idle, likely vacuum leak/crankcase air leak, if while cruising likely MAF and/or fuel pump.

Given you have a 330, I have seen a lot of MAF problems with 330's at cruise. Not sure if you know the MAF history on your car, is it original?? Has it been replaced??
Thanks. I'm sure it's the original. I'm starting to think that the car was owned by like a 16 year old girl before me ha. I just cleaned the MAF with some CRC when I did my girlfriend's mk4 jetta. I might hit it again just to be sure. Then hit the fuel pump. Then go back to the MAF as it is happening at highway speeds

Last edited by DonaldE; 02-26-2013 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:24 PM   #4
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I will say most likely MAF as it is a 330.

Make sure you DO NOT buy a MAF on ebay. You will be sorry!
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:49 AM   #5
MJLavelle
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Is it possible that you pulled the vacuum hose loose when you installed the fuel filter. There is a vacuum line that runs from the F connector on the intake hose, connects to a hard line that runs to the bottom of the car, and then connects to the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel filter. I would check out all of that plumbing first. The flexible hose that runs from the hard line to the fuel pressure regulator was a sticky mess when I changed mine, and had a few cracks. I also managed to pull it loose, along with the hard line, from the flexible hose that runs from the F connector.

Last edited by MJLavelle; 02-27-2013 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
I will say most likely MAF as it is a 330.

Make sure you DO NOT buy a MAF on ebay. You will be sorry!
Noted. Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJLavelle View Post
Is it possible that you pulled the vacuum hose loose when you installed the fuel filter. There is a vacuum line that runs from the F connector on the intake hose, connects to a hard line that runs to the bottom of the car, and then connects to the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel filter. I would check out all of that plumbing first. The flexible hose that runs from the hard line to the fuel pressure regulator was a sticky mess when I changed mine, and had a few cracks. I also managed to pull it loose, along with the hard line, from the flexible hose that runs from the F connector.
Good call man. I will check that for sure

Checked fuel filter hose. I forgot I replaced it when I swapped the filter. So now that its functioning, that's every probably what put me out of spec. I'm thinking I'll clean the MAF again. Then go to CCV vent.

So the code went away on it's own.
Is it possible that after the MAF cleaning it just needed to reset?
You mentioned that because I have a 330, I should be more worried about MAF
Does that meant that Fuel Pump problems are less likely for me, or should I replace it based on the code clearing on it's own. (Soft Fail?)
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Last edited by Solidjake; 03-05-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:24 PM   #7
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http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=966296

Read this thread.

Shows how to check fuel pump soft fail or not
Diagnose maf with software.

You could learn a lot there....I did.....my maf was bad.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldE View Post
So the code went away on it's own.
Is it possible that after the MAF cleaning it just needed to reset?
You mentioned that because I have a 330, I should be more worried about MAF
Does that meant that Fuel Pump problems are less likely for me, or should I replace it based on the code clearing on it's own. (Soft Fail?)
Well, it really did not go away on its own, if I'm reading your other post correctly. Was the vac hose to your fuel filter disconnected, and you hooked it back up? If so, that is most likely the reason it went away. I'm not sure you need to look further than that.
Also, cleaning the MAF once is probably sufficient.
How old is your fuel pump? You may want to consider changing it based on age.
But , if the code has cleared, and you fixed a vacuum leak at the fuel filter, then that could be the end of it. Take a positive result for what it is, a positive result.
If your fuel pump is old, and you have the funds to change it, then do so. But if you had an open vacuum line, then that was probably the beginning and the end of your issues. If you did not clear the code, then it would clear itself after driving a while.

Last edited by MJLavelle; 03-02-2013 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJLavelle View Post
Well, it really did not go away on its own, if I'm reading your other post correctly. Was the vac hose to your fuel filter disconnected, and you hooked it back up? If so, that is most likely the reason it went away. I'm not sure you need to look further than that.
Also, cleaning the MAF once is probably sufficient.
How old is your fuel pump? You may want to consider changing it based on age.
But , if the code has cleared, and you fixed a vacuum leak at the fuel filter, then that could be the end of it. Take a positive result for what it is, a positive result.
If your fuel pump is old, and you have the funds to change it, then do so. But if you had an open vacuum line, then that was probably the beginning and the end of your issues. If you did not clear the code, then it would clear itself after driving a while.
I can see how the post may have been confusing to read. But no, that is not how it happened.

I had no SES light prior to changing my fuel filter. After changing it and fixing the cracked fuel pressure regulator hose, the light came on. I cleaned the MAF and cleared the code and it came back after ~50 miles. It THEN turned off on it's own and I'm a little curious as to why. I do take a positive result for what it is; however, I'm a little worried that it could be because of a soft-failing fuel filter.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:19 PM   #10
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How did the old fuel filter look?
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:23 AM   #11
MJLavelle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldE View Post
I can see how the post may have been confusing to read. But no, that is not how it happened.

I had no SES light prior to changing my fuel filter. After changing it and fixing the cracked fuel pressure regulator hose, the light came on. I cleaned the MAF and cleared the code and it came back after ~50 miles. It THEN turned off on it's own and I'm a little curious as to why. I do take a positive result for what it is; however, I'm a little worried that it could be because of a soft-failing fuel filter.
I see. Thanks for the explanation.
At this point, I would stop wondering, and spend the $120 needed to replace the fuel pump. It really is one of the easiest repairs you can do on these cars. In my case, the fuel filter took longer.
Was your fuel filter original? Mine was, at 120k miles. Not long after, my fuel pump died. I was experiencing some very hard starts, where I would crank it for 2-3 minutes. I replaced the fuel filter, which I found out was original, and everything went back to normal. It even cleared up a low/unsteady idle issue I have had since I bought the car. I had the fuel pump, but I did not put it in at the time I did the filter. The truth is, I had just finished a round of chemotherapy about 3 weeks earlier, and it took all that I had to get the filter changed out. Not to mention that the smell of gas was making me puke even worse than normal.
A few weeks later, the fuel pump died. I had all of the parts and tools in the trunk, just in case. So, I had no choice but to change it out in a restaurant parking lot. It took me about 45 minutes, and it started right up. I managed to finish the entire thing before throwing up from the smell of gas.
I really wonder if old, clogged fuel filters are not causing a lot of the pump failures. I know that I am not the only one that was riding around on an original fuel filter. I was a bit surprised that mine was original, since the original owner, and the second owner both used BMW service exclusively. I would think that changing the fuel filter would be on one of the inspection lists.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJLavelle View Post
I see. Thanks for the explanation.
At this point, I would stop wondering, and spend the $120 needed to replace the fuel pump. It really is one of the easiest repairs you can do on these cars. In my case, the fuel filter took longer.
Was your fuel filter original? Mine was, at 120k miles. Not long after, my fuel pump died. I was experiencing some very hard starts, where I would crank it for 2-3 minutes. I replaced the fuel filter, which I found out was original, and everything went back to normal. It even cleared up a low/unsteady idle issue I have had since I bought the car. I had the fuel pump, but I did not put it in at the time I did the filter. The truth is, I had just finished a round of chemotherapy about 3 weeks earlier, and it took all that I had to get the filter changed out. Not to mention that the smell of gas was making me puke even worse than normal.
A few weeks later, the fuel pump died. I had all of the parts and tools in the trunk, just in case. So, I had no choice but to change it out in a restaurant parking lot. It took me about 45 minutes, and it started right up. I managed to finish the entire thing before throwing up from the smell of gas.
I really wonder if old, clogged fuel filters are not causing a lot of the pump failures. I know that I am not the only one that was riding around on an original fuel filter. I was a bit surprised that mine was original, since the original owner, and the second owner both used BMW service exclusively. I would think that changing the fuel filter would be on one of the inspection lists.
Hope you're feeling ok

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Old 03-05-2013, 09:17 AM   #13
DonaldE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJLavelle View Post
I see. Thanks for the explanation.
At this point, I would stop wondering, and spend the $120 needed to replace the fuel pump. It really is one of the easiest repairs you can do on these cars. In my case, the fuel filter took longer.
Was your fuel filter original? Mine was, at 120k miles. Not long after, my fuel pump died. I was experiencing some very hard starts, where I would crank it for 2-3 minutes. I replaced the fuel filter, which I found out was original, and everything went back to normal. It even cleared up a low/unsteady idle issue I have had since I bought the car. I had the fuel pump, but I did not put it in at the time I did the filter. The truth is, I had just finished a round of chemotherapy about 3 weeks earlier, and it took all that I had to get the filter changed out. Not to mention that the smell of gas was making me puke even worse than normal.
A few weeks later, the fuel pump died. I had all of the parts and tools in the trunk, just in case. So, I had no choice but to change it out in a restaurant parking lot. It took me about 45 minutes, and it started right up. I managed to finish the entire thing before throwing up from the smell of gas.
I really wonder if old, clogged fuel filters are not causing a lot of the pump failures. I know that I am not the only one that was riding around on an original fuel filter. I was a bit surprised that mine was original, since the original owner, and the second owner both used BMW service exclusively. I would think that changing the fuel filter would be on one of the inspection lists.
That sounds like quite the task. I'm sorry to hear about your Chemo. I haven't had any troubled starts or idles or anything that would point to a failing fuel pump; however, I will be ordering one this weekend just to have "in case". The fuel filter was not original. I could tell because the clamps holding the lines were just about mangled by the person that changed it prior to me. I'll need new clamps next time around for sure.
All in all, I think it was just a fluke code because of the new vac line working properly. I don't think that my fuel pump is failing, but I will have an extra on hand just in case. I enjoy making PM repairs anyhow. It still starts on first crank and has no idle issues, and not to forget that any time I put my foot on the gas, it goes like hell. (To me anyway) It could probably use some new plugs. But, I'll do that when I do my VCG and VANOS. Just got my new Torque wrench from a pawn shop and am super pumped about it as it has selectable inch pounds and NM on either side. for 30 bucks!
Thanks for your responses gents
DonaldE
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:37 AM   #14
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I wouldn't clean the MAF again. It's sensitive. Disturb it as little as possible.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:04 AM   #15
DonaldE
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I wouldn't clean the MAF again. It's sensitive. Disturb it as little as possible.
Agreed. Although I was gentle to begin with, I want that puppy to last
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldE View Post
That sounds like quite the task. I'm sorry to hear about your Chemo. I haven't had any troubled starts or idles or anything that would point to a failing fuel pump; however, I will be ordering one this weekend just to have "in case". The fuel filter was not original. I could tell because the clamps holding the lines were just about mangled by the person that changed it prior to me. I'll need new clamps next time around for sure.
All in all, I think it was just a fluke code because of the new vac line working properly. I don't think that my fuel pump is failing, but I will have an extra on hand just in case. I enjoy making PM repairs anyhow. It still starts on first crank and has no idle issues, and not to forget that any time I put my foot on the gas, it goes like hell. (To me anyway) It could probably use some new plugs. But, I'll do that when I do my VCG and VANOS. Just got my new Torque wrench from a pawn shop and am super pumped about it as it has selectable inch pounds and NM on either side. for 30 bucks!
Thanks for your responses gents
DonaldE
You just reminded me that I should start scanning Pawn shops for tools! One of the unfortunate side effects of hard economic times is that a lot of small shops and contractors start selling off their tools. I actually picked up a lot of tools from pawn shops back when I first started getting serious about working on cars. You can find a lot of bargains there, and not just tools.
The driver for the car service I use to take me to the airport had a Valentine radar detector installed the last time he drove me, and he said hat he got it from a Pawn shop for $125.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJLavelle View Post
You just reminded me that I should start scanning Pawn shops for tools! One of the unfortunate side effects of hard economic times is that a lot of small shops and contractors start selling off their tools. I actually picked up a lot of tools from pawn shops back when I first started getting serious about working on cars. You can find a lot of bargains there, and not just tools.
The driver for the car service I use to take me to the airport had a Valentine radar detector installed the last time he drove me, and he said hat he got it from a Pawn shop for $125.
That's awesome. I had an abundance of tools from growing up with a mechanic father but I still am having to buy tools specific to this car. I.e tamper proof torx when I did my xenon swap
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:28 PM   #18
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replace ccv and 4 hoses.. clear codes.

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Old 03-05-2013, 08:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJLavelle View Post
I see. Thanks for the explanation.
At this point, I would stop wondering, and spend the $120 needed to replace the fuel pump. It really is one of the easiest repairs you can do on these cars. In my case, the fuel filter took longer.
Was your fuel filter original? Mine was, at 120k miles. Not long after, my fuel pump died. I was experiencing some very hard starts, where I would crank it for 2-3 minutes. I replaced the fuel filter, which I found out was original, and everything went back to normal. It even cleared up a low/unsteady idle issue I have had since I bought the car. I had the fuel pump, but I did not put it in at the time I did the filter. The truth is, I had just finished a round of chemotherapy about 3 weeks earlier, and it took all that I had to get the filter changed out. Not to mention that the smell of gas was making me puke even worse than normal.
A few weeks later, the fuel pump died. I had all of the parts and tools in the trunk, just in case. So, I had no choice but to change it out in a restaurant parking lot. It took me about 45 minutes, and it started right up. I managed to finish the entire thing before throwing up from the smell of gas.
I really wonder if old, clogged fuel filters are not causing a lot of the pump failures. I know that I am not the only one that was riding around on an original fuel filter. I was a bit surprised that mine was original, since the original owner, and the second owner both used BMW service exclusively. I would think that changing the fuel filter would be on one of the inspection lists.
I hope you feel better soon. Hats off to you for working on the car now.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:24 AM   #20
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Sub'd for later use. I have the same problems and codes and did the all the same fixes as the OP besides fuel system stuff.

I was thinking fuel pump and filter next (car is at 150k). I replaced both the upper and lower intake hoses, DISA kit from GAS. I need to clean the maf again and try it. Haven't done that in probably 20k miles.

I get a little bucking at 60mph and sometimes on cruise control up above 60. Seems like fuel delivery right? Since the pumps and filters are relatively easy jobs its where I'm headed next. If not, then o2 sensors?

I'll check the CCv hoses as well!
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