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Political Talk
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:04 PM   #61
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These replies offer no substance whatsoever. You just sh1t on what someone else says and offer nothing.
I know you'd rather I waste my time picking at your worldview. The "tough sh!t, get your act together" macho father routine is all bravado & bluster, and devoid of substance. It ignores the realities at hand and pretends that good 'ole fashioned willpower is all one needs.
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Doing drugs and having sex... oh wow big deal. Well it is actually a HUGE deal.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:09 PM   #62
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I get your viewpoint and share similar principles. However using that mindset, why should we bother treating people without insurance or money to pay for it, even if it is life-threatening?


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They shouldn't get care, period, if they can't afford it. The rest of us are paying for them because a) they can't afford it and b) because they don't get health insurance or cant afford that.

Look, I don't want to be a total hardass and I understand that some wage earners can't afford it at all. But I will be a hard ass...tough sh1t. Either a) change your lifestyle to be more healthy and make personal sacrifices (like not drinking soda or becoming obese in some other more feasible way) or b) cut something else out of your life to help pay for it.

If you show up to a hospital without insurance or without money, unless its immediately life-threatening, you get no treatment at all.

The solution that has been suggested is universal care, where the more well-off are assumed to be able to carry everyone else. Classic re-distribution of assets and a skewed view of asset/wealth management of the well-off. And then as a result of this, the government decides what citizens can eat and drink because the system exists. The country has lost its fvcking mind.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:32 PM   #63
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I get your viewpoint and share similar principles. However using that mindset, why should we bother treating people without insurance or money to pay for it, even if it is life-threatening?
as a person whos pays nearly $25,000/yr for insurance i say let them bleed! or just give them subpar doctors
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:33 PM   #64
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I know you'd rather I waste my time picking at your worldview. The "tough sh!t, get your act together" macho father routine is all bravado & bluster, and devoid of substance. It ignores the realities at hand and pretends that good 'ole fashioned willpower is all one needs.
Ignores what realities? That this society has become a bunch of wusses? That this society loves handouts? That this society refuses to take responsibility for their actions? That this society's progressive movements in favor of changing things for some trample on the principles of others, some of which are founding principles of the Country's founding?

Of course willpower is not all what is needed, but life isn't always fair. Not everyone can be whole-ly successful. The median household income is like $50,000. That means that half of the population makes less and half makes more. Only 6% make more than 100k. Yet people seem to think they're entitled to a better life than their parents had or that they're entitled to be better than most everyone else or at least be "average." Some people will fall by the wayside...I'm sorry, that's life. And no matter how hard they work, some people will never make it out of that hole. And yes, that sucks...but that's life. And that's somewhat of a reality of society's throughout the ages. Attempts to level the playing field for all (socialism, etc.) generally fail.

We're looking at this in two different lenses I think. None of what I'm saying is personal, understand? You're African American, right? I'm white. Hi. American History is replete with atrocities against minorities. I can understand (though I'm sure never fully) that racism still is in effect and that African American's are both pissed about what their ancestors had to go through and that a vast majority of minorities can't seem to break out of a system that they claim keeps them down. Part of that is the racism again. The point is, you probably look at things through a completely different lens than I or other people do. Each one of us looks at life differently based on an enormous amount of factors that face us during our youth and early life. In the end, we have diametrically opposing views about certain things (how people can't crawl out, etc.) that we'll likely never resolve. And where you feel that my perspective is out of whack, I think yours is too in some ways.

I don't know if that makes any sense. Ultimately, we both have very different views on how government should regulate our lives and how it should help others by putting more of a load on others.


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I get your viewpoint and share similar principles. However using that mindset, why should we bother treating people without insurance or money to pay for it, even if it is life-threatening?
I'm not a cold-hearted bastard. I believe in the value of human life and no amount of money is worth losing a life over. Those with immediate life-threatening injuries require immediate intervention without bias, regardless of their financial status.

I feel that others have time to make provisions to pay for the treatment they receive before they receive it. If they can't, no treatment. If I need gas for my car, or groceries, I can't go the store or station and pick it up without cash or some other way to pay it. i hold the same principle to health care.

Its about financial responsibility. People rack up too much debt, which they pass off to the creditor in bankruptcy, etc. Those who provide services don't get paid because someone contracts for a service or product they can't afford. And to me, that's ridiculous.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:38 PM   #65
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as a person whos pays nearly $25,000/yr for insurance i say let them bleed! or just give them subpar doctors


seems like you'd be better off just putting that money in savings and paying out of pocket
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:04 PM   #66
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I'm not a cold-hearted bastard. I believe in the value of human life and no amount of money is worth losing a life over. Those with immediate life-threatening injuries require immediate intervention without bias, regardless of their financial status.

I feel that others have time to make provisions to pay for the treatment they receive before they receive it. If they can't, no treatment. If I need gas for my car, or groceries, I can't go the store or station and pick it up without cash or some other way to pay it. i hold the same principle to health care.

Its about financial responsibility. People rack up too much debt, which they pass off to the creditor in bankruptcy, etc. Those who provide services don't get paid because someone contracts for a service or product they can't afford. And to me, that's ridiculous.
I get where you're coming from, I do. But if you want to pay for interventional treatment, that costs a hell of a lot more than it would have been to control their diabetes or reduce their hypertension. I agree with you by principle, but from a financial/utilitarian perspective, it makes more sense to cover preventative treatment than it does to wait until it escalates and becomes life-threatening where drastic and expensive measures have to be taken to save somebody's life.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:56 PM   #67
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I get where you're coming from, I do. But if you want to pay for interventional treatment, that costs a hell of a lot more than it would have been to control their diabetes or reduce their hypertension. I agree with you by principle, but from a financial/utilitarian perspective, it makes more sense to cover preventative treatment than it does to wait until it escalates and becomes life-threatening where drastic and expensive measures have to be taken to save somebody's life.
When I say immediate life-threatening injury, I'm talking trauma (car accident, gun shot, etc.). I'm not talking about the guy developing hypertension or diabetes. Heart attacks, sure, and you could make the argument that it's better to treat the hypertension before it becomes a heart attack. But I would argue that heart attacks are going to happen anyway, so no point in treating the hypertension if they can't pay for the treatment up front.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:08 PM   #68
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When I say immediate life-threatening injury, I'm talking trauma (car accident, gun shot, etc.). I'm not talking about the guy developing hypertension or diabetes. Heart attacks, sure, and you could make the argument that it's better to treat the hypertension before it becomes a heart attack. But I would argue that heart attacks are going to happen anyway, so no point in treating the hypertension if they can't pay for the treatment up front.
Ok, so if someone comes in with a heart attack, stroke, or an asthma attack from smoking, we shouldn't treat them for that. If someone comes in having had a heart attack and subsequently getting into a car accident, then we should treat him for his trauma injuries but not his heart attack nor should we give him treatment to prevent future heart attacks. This all dives into a VERY gray area since there is no clear line between treatment or no treatment. If we do decide to treat, do we treat the patient as a whole or do we turn a blind eye to his chronic conditions?

I don't mean to bust your balls...this is just a slippery slope. Why even bother treating his trauma if he's just going to die of a future heart attack?
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:14 PM   #69
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If they had it, they would've gotten preventative care = not waiting till the last minute, which costs 10x as much
Wow there's an outright lie. Even people with coverage don't regularly get preventative care or eat right or exercise.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:21 PM   #70
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Good. Government shouldn't be in the business of telling citizens what to eat, and it damn sure shouldn't be in the business of healthcare.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:27 PM   #71
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Good. Government shouldn't be in the business of telling citizens what to eat, and it damn sure shouldn't be in the business of healthcare.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:28 PM   #72
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:30 PM   #73
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Good. Government shouldn't be in the business of telling citizens what to eat, and it damn sure shouldn't be in the business of healthcare.
Precisely.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:37 PM   #74
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When you have a city full of morons, it's no wonder how someone like Bloomberg gets away with **** like this...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...tes-cant-read/

Now, how much tax-payer money are they going to waste on the appeal?
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:40 PM   #75
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So if you go to the doctor next week and he tells you you have lung cancer, and your health insurance subsequently drops your coverage, it's actually your job to tell the health insurance that they can't drop you because it's not right.

Government has NO role whatsoever in healthcare, right?
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:40 PM   #76
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So if you go to the doctor next week and he tells you you have lung cancer, and your health insurance subsequently drops your coverage, it's actually your job to tell the health insurance that they can't drop you because it's not right.

Government has NO role whatsoever in healthcare, right?
Your post gave me cancel
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:48 PM   #77
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So if you go to the doctor next week and he tells you you have lung cancer, and your health insurance subsequently drops your coverage, it's actually your job to tell the health insurance that they can't drop you because it's not right.

Government has NO role whatsoever in healthcare, right?
Do you ever wonder why things like healthcare and college cost so much?
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:49 PM   #78
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Do you ever wonder why things like healthcare and college cost so much?
Sure I do. Where are you going with this?

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:53 PM   #79
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Do you ever wonder why things like healthcare and college cost so much?
oooh oooh pick me!!!
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:55 PM   #80
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there are libtards and there are conservatards
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