E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-12-2013, 09:17 AM   #81
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,023
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by david05111 View Post
They shouldn't get care, period, if they can't afford it. The rest of us are paying for them because a) they can't afford it and b) because they don't get health insurance or cant afford that.

Look, I don't want to be a total hardass and I understand that some wage earners can't afford it at all. But I will be a hard ass...tough sh1t. Either a) change your lifestyle to be more healthy and make personal sacrifices (like not drinking soda or becoming obese in some other more feasible way) or b) cut something else out of your life to help pay for it.

If you show up to a hospital without insurance or without money, unless its immediately life-threatening, you get no treatment at all.

Its ridiculous that we've come to a point where people think that other people should carry everyone else along at their expense. This is NOT a ideal world where everyone loves each other and the spirit of humanity drives us, along with a desire to better ourselves and our own comprehension of our existence. The world runs on money and the reason we're in alot of the **** we're in at the moment is because people took what they couldn't afford and fvcked it up. That includes the banks/credit companies who were too willing to give the money out to people who didn't deserve it and couldn't pay it back.

The solution that has been suggested is universal care, where the more well-off are assumed to be able to carry everyone else. Classic re-distribution of assets and a skewed view of asset/wealth management of the well-off. And then as a result of this, the government decides what citizens can eat and drink because the system exists. The country has lost its fvcking mind.
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:24 AM   #82
DylloS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 672
My Ride: nothing
DylloS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:29 AM   #83
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,023
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamdrivedrift View Post
I get your viewpoint and share similar principles. However using that mindset, why should we bother treating people without insurance or money to pay for it, even if it is life-threatening?
Quote:
Originally Posted by david05111 View Post
I'm not a cold-hearted bastard. I believe in the value of human life and no amount of money is worth losing a life over. Those with immediate life-threatening injuries require immediate intervention without bias, regardless of their financial status.

I feel that others have time to make provisions to pay for the treatment they receive before they receive it. If they can't, no treatment. If I need gas for my car, or groceries, I can't go the store or station and pick it up without cash or some other way to pay it. i hold the same principle to health care.

Its about financial responsibility. People rack up too much debt, which they pass off to the creditor in bankruptcy, etc. Those who provide services don't get paid because someone contracts for a service or product they can't afford. And to me, that's ridiculous.
This. People CHOSE to work for companies (Wal-Mart) that offer sub-par health insurance (if any at all). There are various other employers that those employees can CHOSE to go and work for in order to gain insurance. The difference is that Wal-Mart wins over these employees with a slightly higher paycheck... when you CHOSE to work for Wal-Mart for the higher "take home pay", you RUN THE RISK of getting sick and being in a tight spot. If you then CHOSE to forgo health insurance so you can pay off credit cards, buy tvs, or whatever... well than you have to deal with the REPERCUSSIONS of those RISKS.

I just will never understand the viewpoint that says we need to forgive people of their CHOICES in this world... it's like student loans and the nonsense surrounding them. People CHOSE to take loans to go to expensive private institutions rather than cheaper state schools... If you made this CHOICE, you have to accept the reality of those loans. For Obama to stand up and claim that we should forgive them, well it's just asinine and directly opposed to the founding principle of INDIVIDUAL SOVEREIGNTY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamdrivedrift View Post
I get where you're coming from, I do. But if you want to pay for interventional treatment, that costs a hell of a lot more than it would have been to control their diabetes or reduce their hypertension. I agree with you by principle, but from a financial/utilitarian perspective, it makes more sense to cover preventative treatment than it does to wait until it escalates and becomes life-threatening where drastic and expensive measures have to be taken to save somebody's life.
But let's be real.... even if you offered "free preventative maintenance", how many people would utilize it? We offer free condoms (and even abortions) and look at all the unwanted kids brought into this world by parents who then expect the government to cover the costs incurred. PEOPLE ARE IRRESPONSIBLE. It's THAT simple. And we can't continue to foster a world in which that ignorance is accepted, protected, encouraged, and paid for at the expense of those who are responsible.
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244

Last edited by 2000_328CI; 03-12-2013 at 09:31 AM.
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:38 AM   #84
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Chase logic is not applicable in most people's decisions.
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:52 AM   #85
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,023
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
Chase logic is not applicable in most people's decisions.
And that is the reality that people FAIL to comprehend. They look at a situation like this and they sympathize with those who don't have coverage... BUT THEY CHOSE TO IGNORE THAT.

Do you (the general public) feel bad for those who win the Darwin awards? Do you feel bad for someone who plays an extreme sport and gets injured (or dies)? Do you feel bad when an extreme skateboarder cracks his head?

Sure... I do feel for those people. Must SUCK big time. But they CHOSE to do those things and must ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES of their realities. When someone CHOOSES to work for an employer who does not offer healthcare, they accept the responsibility themselves. If they then CHOSE to not purchase healthcare on their own, they CHOSE to accept the bills that face them down the road in the hospital. And yet, we're supposed to FEEL bad for these individuals and based on that FEELING, we are supposed to LOGICALLY enact legislation that covers them.

And that is my problem with so much of the current administration (and those of their mindset). Basing legislation (which should be logical) on emotions...
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 10:06 AM   #86
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
If they then CHOSE to not purchase healthcare on their own, they CHOSE to accept the bills that face them down the road in the hospital.
Just like they CHOOSE to file for bankruptcy when they cannot afford those expenses. And guess who the hospitals CHOOSE to recover those funds from?
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 11:38 AM   #87
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,023
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
Just like they CHOOSE to file for bankruptcy when they cannot afford those expenses. And guess who the hospitals CHOOSE to recover those funds from?
They can work to pay them off over time. And, if nothing else, at least SOMETHING will be contributed towards the cost by the individual receiving the operation. I'd rather them pay SOMETHING.

Furthermore, the notions of illegals is off the table. The notion that someone can come in with NO credentials that they are even a citizen and can (A) get coverage provided free of cost and (B) receive NO repercussions (ie contacting ICE) is preposterous.
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 07:36 AM   #88
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
They can work to pay them off over time. And, if nothing else, at least SOMETHING will be contributed towards the cost by the individual receiving the operation. I'd rather them pay SOMETHING.
Over half of personal bankruptcies are due to medical expenses. So while they take a hit to their credit you get hit on your next hospital bill.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 07:44 AM   #89
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
This is what happens when you have this much money, you seek power because that is all that is left.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use