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Political Talk
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:14 PM   #1
david05111
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Own property in a state, but have no voting rights in state/local elections

Does anyone else think this is absurd?

I own property in New York. I pay $10,000-15,000/year in property taxes alone on that property. Yet I have no right to vote in state or local elections which have direct impact on my property rights and my taxation. The locals determine how much to tax me; I have zero say.

I'm not asking for a vote in national elections for congress or the president. That would amount to buying a second vote. But I don't see how the heck the state can deny me a right to vote regarding my own property there.

No taxation without representation?
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:24 PM   #2
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Technically I see how it is not fair...but the government is going to do what they want.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:51 PM   #3
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It is fair. You are not a resident. Does that mean that if I own stock in McD and as a shareholder I have partial interest in every restaurant in all 50 states that I can vote 50 times in every election ?
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:53 PM   #4
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It is fair. You are not a resident. Does that mean that if I own stock in McD and as a shareholder I have partial interest in every restaurant in all 50 states that I can vote 50 times in every election ?
No, but I would make the argument that if you owned a franchise in every state, that you might get 50 votes at the franchise owners meeting

I don't see how its fair at all. They're collecting state and county taxes from me and not giving me any say whatsoever in what programs are instituted or what representative is in the state legislature, let alone the governor. I don't get it at all.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:58 PM   #5
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It varies state to state....this issue came up with one of my clients a few years ago, and at the time there were 10 or 12 states that allowed non-resident property owners to vote on matters that impacted property taxes and things like that.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:24 PM   #6
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It varies state to state....this issue came up with one of my clients a few years ago, and at the time there were 10 or 12 states that allowed non-resident property owners to vote on matters that impacted property taxes and things like that.
Which is exactly how it should be. I really can't believe that its any other way. Local's don't want an outsider to help decide the decisions the state makes, but they sure as hell love to take the money you inject in. Its hypocrisy at its finest.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:03 AM   #7
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Does anyone else think this is absurd? No taxation without representation?
Might want to talk to DC residents on this one, an issue they're all too familiar with.

I think in most cases, state voting eligibility is based upon a broader concept of state residency and citizenship beyond simply owning some property, i.e., the concept of citizenship is an individual right that adheres to one's person, not to one's property.

Should a German BMW stockholder in Bavaria get to vote in American / South Carolina elections because BMW, and by extension the stockholder, has property in South Carolina in the form of a BMW plant? Or perhaps just in some specific subset of issues directly related to or with a direct impact upon said property? How would one determine that criteria though? That American/SC tax-paying Bavarian shareholder certainly would be effected by American/SC elections and subsequent economic and property policies. Perhaps one could restrict that to U.S. citizens, but I think the broader ideas and problems still exist.

I think in reality the idea of only voting in one's place of primary residence is probably the most pragmatic, if not without some downsides.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:57 AM   #8
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Might want to talk to DC residents on this one, an issue they're all too familiar with.

I think in most cases, state voting eligibility is based upon a broader concept of state residency and citizenship beyond simply owning some property, i.e., the concept of citizenship is an individual right that adheres to one's person, not to one's property.

Should a German BMW stockholder in Bavaria get to vote in American / South Carolina elections because BMW, and by extension the stockholder, has property in South Carolina in the form of a BMW plant? Or perhaps just in some specific subset of issues directly related to or with a direct impact upon said property? How would one determine that criteria though? That American/SC tax-paying Bavarian shareholder certainly would be effected by American/SC elections and subsequent economic and property policies. Perhaps one could restrict that to U.S. citizens, but I think the broader ideas and problems still exist.

I think in reality the idea of only voting in one's place of primary residence is probably the most pragmatic, if not without some downsides.
Agree regarding DC; IMO, they should be eligible to vote in Virginia or Maryland.

You're right, it is based on citizenship/residency. I am a resident, not a permanent resident.

Regarding the stockholder, well here's a few things. He's a stockholder. The company itself owns the property. Traditional stockholders gain no rights in the physical property of corporations; they do gain financial rights, depending on their stake. Your supposition would best be demonstrated by allowing the corporation a vote in elections. But no states anywhere allow corporations to vote. So none of that makes sense...and its not analogous.

What else is pragmatic is "if you want my tax money, I get a vote regarding what you do with it. If I don't get a vote, you don't get any money."
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:12 PM   #9
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Interesting issue for sure, I can see the argument both ways. As a property owner, your interests are not being represented and you are being taxed without any input. As someone who actually lives in that district, you're just an investor/part time resident and why should you have any say about how they run things? You don't even care enough to live there.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #10
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The more I think about it, the more I come to believe that citizenship and the ensuing right to vote is a personal right conferred solely upon the individual, not a right conferred upon or through one's stuff.

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Old 04-17-2013, 05:33 PM   #11
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The more I think about it, the more I come to believe that citizenship and the ensuing right to vote is a personal right conferred solely upon the individual, not a right conferred upon or through one's stuff.
Thats true, but how can anyone possibly think its fair to tax someone's stuff and allowing them to govern it without giving the owner a vote regarding its governance?
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:35 PM   #12
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taxation without representation... just pretend your an illegal immigrant, then you can vote, go to college, get free healthcare etc...
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:01 PM   #13
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Thats true, but how can anyone possibly think its fair to tax someone's stuff and allowing them to govern it without giving the owner a vote regarding its governance?
I don't think anyone ever mentioned the requirement for local, state or federal authorities to be rational. It's an unfortunate reality, but on the flip side you always have the option to sell that property and purchase one in a state that allows you to vote as a non-resident.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:07 PM   #14
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I don't think anyone ever mentioned the requirement for local, state or federal authorities to be rational. It's an unfortunate reality, but on the flip side you always have the option to sell that property and purchase one in a state that allows you to vote as a non-resident.
Ahh but you see, the increased taxation they've levied on my property affects my ability to sell it. Not many would pay that much in taxation on a property. I do so because its close to my heart and part of my youth. So in many ways, that's not an option at all or a reality.

I think I'm going to have it designated as a church that holds sporadic services and weddings. Taxation will be cut by a HUGE amount. Town will probably be getting less money then.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:30 PM   #15
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Ahh but you see, the increased taxation they've levied on my property affects my ability to sell it. Not many would pay that much in taxation on a property. I do so because its close to my heart and part of my youth. So in many ways, that's not an option at all or a reality.

I think I'm going to have it designated as a church that holds sporadic services and weddings. Taxation will be cut by a HUGE amount. Town will probably be getting less money then.
plant 2 crops, get a horse...call it a farm and get subsidies
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