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Old 04-18-2013, 11:24 AM   #61
NFRs2000nyc
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wait... the US senate?



It's not a matter of popularity. It's their job (I know... still laughing) to acknowledge and represent the majority. They are shooting something down (notice the pun?) that a very vocal overwhelming majority are in favor of. Can you say lobbyist?
It is poorly sold. Most support background checks. Great. But they ignore the fact that we ALREADY have background checks. The media is selling it as everyone is buying guns willynilly like a box of cereal, which you know isn't true. The senate voted down the EXPANSION of background checks, not background checks.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:28 AM   #62
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so is your answer for every problem gonna be to get a gun? That girl in fear for life needs to contact the proper authorities, not take the law into her own hands.
Hahahaha, sheep.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:29 AM   #63
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Just to point out, I'm pretty sure you can buy a gun without a background check...from the government itself, no less. And it can be shipped to your door.

Civilian Marksmanship Program, a government chartered and supported organization, will ship any person eligible to have a firearm a military surplus rifle directly to their door. No dealer required. And you can get an M1 Garand, a semi-automatic, 10 bullet clip wielding rifle that shoots a 30.06 or .308 cartridge (far more powerful than a 5.56 from an AR15). It ships directly to your door.

Now, if its ok for the government to allow that itself, why is it not ok for others? And all that you have to provide to them is a certification that you are eligible to own a firearm (basically a signature), membership within a local firearms organization, and a certificate of some form of training. No NICS background check. Period.

Now tell me, where does your argument stand now? The government does it. And you want to criticize lawful citizens legally engaging in commerce to transact in privately owned property? Give me a break.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:30 AM   #64
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What constitutional right? If you can't buy a gun from a dealer without a background check, why should you be able to do buy it without a background check in any other scenario?

Besides, I wasn't talking about the bill as good for the country, but the actions of the NRA being counterproductive to the entire legislative process.


Again. If you can't buy a gun from a dealer without a background check, why should you be able to do buy it without a background check in any other scenario?


Is it good for the country that we require background checks for purchases from dealers, but not for purchases from private persons or gun shows?
Because you don't pass laws when they do nothing. Show me that passing this bill would have had ANY measurable effect on crime. If you want to pass laws for the sake of passing laws, don't expect others to be on board with it.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:48 AM   #65
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What constitutional right? If you can't buy a gun from a dealer without a background check, why should you be able to do buy it without a background check in any other scenario?

Besides, I wasn't talking about the bill as good for the country, but the actions of the NRA being counterproductive to the entire legislative process.
The right not to have my right to bear arms infringed. Every additional regulation on that is an infringement. Since the right to bear arms is a fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution, the burden is on the party seeking to infringe that right to show that 1) there's a compelling state interest in the new regulation and 2) that there is no less restrictive alternative available. I haven't seen that, so I'm okay with the status quo.

People talk about the NRA as if there are no equally determined parties on the other side pushing just as hard for legislation to be passed.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:01 PM   #66
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:36 PM   #67
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The right not to have my right to bear arms infringed. Every additional regulation on that is an infringement. Since the right to bear arms is a fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution, the burden is on the party seeking to infringe that right to show that 1) there's a compelling state interest in the new regulation and 2) that there is no less restrictive alternative available. I haven't seen that, so I'm okay with the status quo.
I guess it's a difference of mentality. I don't see additional regulation as an infringement. If anything, proper regulation ensures that your rights will NOT be infringed, since they discourage and prevent the misuse of that right by those who wish to do harm to others.

If you think that something as simple as requiring the same type of background checks as are required in dealer sales to be applied to non-dealer sales is infringement, I don't think I can say much to sway your opinion on this topic at all.

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People talk about the NRA as if there are no equally determined parties on the other side pushing just as hard for legislation to be passed.
There is nothing comparable on this particular issue.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:44 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
What constitutional right? If you can't buy a gun from a dealer without a background check, why should you be able to do buy it without a background check in any other scenario?

Besides, I wasn't talking about the bill as good for the country, but the actions of the NRA being counterproductive to the entire legislative process.


Again. If you can't buy a gun from a dealer without a background check, why should you be able to do buy it without a background check in any other scenario?


Is it good for the country that we require background checks for purchases from dealers, but not for purchases from private persons or gun shows?
Gun shows do require background checks. How do I know? The many guns I have bought at a gun show, every single time a background check has been run. It is good that the government does not require a background check when I do a face to face sale in Virginia. Luckily I still can in this great state. As I, and others have mentioned and many oppose, is that the government should not be involved in my personal sales of my personal property. When I sell to someone I do my due diligence to ensure they are allowed to own the gun. If I decided to start selling my guns to gang bangers, guess what, a law saying I'm not allowed wouldn't stop me.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:48 PM   #69
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So, if 90% of the GOP Senators (and a few Blue Dog Dems) voted against something that 90% of Americans are for, just who are they actually representing then?
Themselves, apparently.

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Old 04-18-2013, 12:48 PM   #70
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If I decided to start selling my guns to gang bangers, guess what, a law saying I'm not allowed wouldn't stop me.
A law saying you shouldn't kill doesn't exactly stop you from killing either.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:54 PM   #71
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Where does this figure about 90% of Americans and half of NRA members favor "universal background checks" come from? No one asked me or anyone I know or anyone they know either. Did they poll a group of ten people at a anti 2A demonstration or something?

sent from my ATARI sc1224
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:58 PM   #72
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:25 PM   #73
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If you think that something as simple as requiring the same type of background checks as are required in dealer sales to be applied to non-dealer sales is infringement, I don't think I can say much to sway your opinion on this topic at all.
Nope.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:29 PM   #74
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Liberal Logic:

Black guy kills someone - All black people are not criminals!
Muslim terrorist kills someone -All muslims are not terrorists!
White guy with gun kills someone - All gun owners are crazy militia people!

smh
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:33 PM   #75
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Liberal Logic:

Black guy kills someone - All black people are not criminals!
Muslim terrorist kills someone -All muslims are not terrorists!
White guy with gun kills someone - All gun owners are crazy militia people!

smh
That you even think this way...
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #76
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This is a statistically-sound poll. From my survey sampling and experimental design experience, this was well-conducted.
Maybe the methodology was sound, but to take the results of that poll and say that they mean that "87% of Americans want expanded background checks" is BS. The problem is with the question:

"Do you support or oppose legislation that would require background checks for private gun sales and sales at gun shows?"

We already have legislation that requires background checks on all dealer sales, including all dealer sales at gun shows, which compromise the vast majority of sales at gun shows.

We also already have legislation that requires anyone shipping a gun in a private sale (like all "online" sales) to ship the gun to a FFL holder, who will run a background check if the purchaser does not hold a FFL.

I'm in support of that legislation. If I were being truthful in my response to that question, I would have to answer "yes". However I was strongly opposed to all of the legislation being voted on yesterday.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:16 PM   #77
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I'm in support of that legislation. If I were being truthful in my response to that question, I would have to answer "yes". However I was strongly opposed to all of the legislation being voted on yesterday.
What precisely were you opposed to that was proposed?
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:23 PM   #78
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Wait, what? You didn't jump through enough hoops in NJ to try and get your gun? You think we need MORE regulations?
I honestly don't mind going through the checks. I'm still currently waiting for the mental health check to be completed... because there's been an overwhelming demand for license requests which created a log jam. Bad timing on my part. Prior to the big gun legislation scare it took about 30 days tops.

I plan to purchase legally. I am not in a big hurry. I'm not going to get my undies in a twist over it.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:24 PM   #79
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so is your answer for every problem gonna be to get a gun? That girl in fear for life needs to contact the proper authorities, not take the law into her own hands.
If the problem involves me expecting that a particular person is going to try to murder me without warning, then "gun" is a pretty good answer. And what would the proper authorities do in that situation? Have a cop park outside her house indefinitely? It would take a cop 20 minutes to drive to my house and they're not going to stick around to guard me. Around here, I can guarantee that the cops would recommend arming myself.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:29 PM   #80
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I honestly don't mind going through the checks. I'm still currently waiting for the mental health check to be completed... because there's been an overwhelming demand for license requests which created a log jam. Bad timing on my part. Prior to the big gun legislation scare it took about 30 days tops.

I plan to purchase legally. I am not in a big hurry. I'm not going to get my undies in a twist over it.
Just wait until you get fleeced for $15 everytime you want to buy something (even if it's an hour apart), when you have to apply for a special permit to be able to buy more than one gun a month, to wait (it's up to 10 business days now) to be able to PICK UP your gun while the background check is done (backlog my a$$, this is simply an illegal waiting period), etc.

For me to buy a gun in NJ at a gun shop.

Get in Jeep, drive 11 miles to shop.
Fill out paperwork, show my ids and FIDs, and submit paperwork.
Get in Jeep, drive home.
Wait.
Wait.
Wait some more.
The following week (or two) I get a phone call telling me the check is in and it's clean.
Get in Jeep, drive 11 miles to shop. Sit in some traffic.
Go to store, pay for gun I "purchased" 2 weeks ago.
Get in Jeep, drive home with gun.

Wasted about 4 hours of my time, about $25 in gas, etc.

If you think that's ok, by all means support new gun legislation, but I sure as hell won't support ANY new law when it comes to guns, no matter how much "sense" it makes.

What these states are doing is criminal.

Oh, and BTW, the above is for a long gun. For a pistol it's even more fun.

Get a call from shop "hey Dave, I got that TRP you wanted in stock, but they wont last long!"
Get in Jeep, drive to gun shop, drop $100 so that they hold it for me.
Get in Jeep, drive home.
Get in Jeep, drive to precinct the following Monday (since thats the day the detective allocates for pistol permit approvals.)
Fill out paperwork for a pistol permit.
Get in Jeep, drive home.
Wait a week, two weeks, a month, who knows....depends on the detective and if he got laid the nights before.
No answer, so you call and badger the detectives voicemail
Get a call back the following week, with an apology and your permits are ready.
Get in the S2000 (its a nice day out) and drive to precinct to pick up permit....but pay first of course.
Get in the s2000, drive to gun shop.
Fill out the NICS paperwork.
Get in the s2000 and go home.
Wait.
Wait.
Wait some more.
The following week (or two) I get a phone call telling me the check is in and it's clean.
Get in Jeep, drive 11 miles to shop. Sit in some traffic.
Go to store, pay for pistol I "purchased" 2 months ago.
Get in Jeep, drive home with pistol.

Trust me, your underwear will start to rustle after you've been jerked around.
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