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Old 05-06-2013, 10:40 AM   #1
'busa
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Glenn Beck delivers keynote speech at NRA convention



How many more clues do you need before you realize that this is an ideological, political organization, not out there to defend your rights, but to exploit your fears for political and monetary gain?
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What are we to do?
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:47 AM   #2
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:50 AM   #3
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But, but, if they take away 100 round clips, then they'll take away our right to free speech, privacy, and maybe voting.

I can only imagine how desperate and frightened the NRA is to have Beck do the keynote address. Poor guys.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:55 AM   #4
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I support gun owners, gun rights, etc. I've grown up around guns, own multiple guns and am a regular at my local range.

With that said, I am not a fan of the NRA and do not plan on ever being a member.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #5
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But, but, if they take away 100 round clips, then they'll take away our right to free speech, privacy, and maybe voting.

I can only imagine how desperate and frightened the NRA is to have Beck do the keynote address. Poor guys.
Your logic is horribly flawed. If you can infringe the second amendment then you can infringe the first, or any others.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:28 AM   #6
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Having Glenn Beck speak at an NRA convention means that the organization is out to fawk over it's members? How about the NAACP having Sharpton or Jackson speak at virtually all of their events? Will you make similar comments about the intention of that organization? After all, they are equally absurd with their biases.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:41 AM   #7
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I guess a slippery-slope worldview difference.

The NRA and their adherents see their freedom primarily coming from the point of a gun, i.e., from brute force and blunt threat of physical violence upon "others," including fellow Americans who they feel don't comport with their particular interpretations of the Constitution and the laws that flow from it.

This, in stark contrast to those who see our democracy coming primarily from the point of a pen, i.e., reason, pursuasion, the discourse of ideas amongst fellow Americans through a representative government. This is what creates and constitutes a government and democracy actually worth protecting.

If one feels the need to impose their political views and ideologies upon the majority of their fellow Americans by arms and violence, perhaps its those repellent political views and ideologies that need examination.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:50 AM   #8
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Your logic is horribly flawed. If you can infringe the second amendment then you can infringe the first, or any others.
Not as badly flawed as yours, I'm sorry to say....

First, the jury is still out, you know, on whether non-well-ordered-militia people are entitled to guns, but setting that aside for a moment...

Any right can be infringed. Infringing one doesn't make it any more or less likely that others will be infringed. Where was the clamor about the Patriot Act infringing many citizens' right to privacy from NRA supporters?

And, fyi, I don't oppose people having guns for hunting, personal protection, or just for target practice, but none of those things require a 100 clip magazine. You're not losing any right at all...not yet anyway.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:56 AM   #9
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First, the jury is still out, you know, on whether non-well-ordered-militia people are entitled to guns, but setting that aside for a moment...
It is?
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:04 PM   #10
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First, the jury is still out, you know, on whether non-well-ordered-militia people are entitled to guns, but setting that aside for a moment...
SCOTUS had to rule on it to explain this to laymen.
2nd Amendment has always been an INDIVIDUAL right not tied to a militia.
Heller vs. DC

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Where was the clamor about the Patriot Act infringing many citizens' right to privacy from NRA supporters?
Millions of people including the NRA were/are against it

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And, fyi, I don't oppose people having guns for hunting, personal protection, or just for target practice, but none of those things require a 100 clip magazine. You're not losing any right at all...not yet anyway.
So, you're a "but" guy?

"I have plenty of black friends and I'm all for their rights, but they should use different water fountains"

WTF is a "100 clip, magazine"? You took the politicians gun 101 course, huh? lol
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 05-06-2013, 12:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhumb View Post
I guess a slippery-slope worldview difference.

The NRA and their adherents see their freedom primarily coming from the point of a gun, i.e., from brute force and blunt threat of physical violence upon "others," including fellow Americans who they feel don't comport with their particular interpretations of the Constitution and the laws that flow from it.

This, in stark contrast to those who see our democracy coming primarily from the point of a pen, i.e., reason, pursuasion, the discourse of ideas amongst fellow Americans through a representative government. This is what creates and constitutes a government and democracy actually worth protecting.

If one feels the need to impose their political views and ideologies upon the majority of their fellow Americans by arms and violence, perhaps its those repellent political views and ideologies that need examination.
Well said
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhumb View Post
I guess a slippery-slope worldview difference.

The NRA and their adherents see their freedom primarily coming from the point of a gun, i.e., from brute force and blunt threat of physical violence upon "others," including fellow Americans who they feel don't comport with their particular interpretations of the Constitution and the laws that flow from it.

This, in stark contrast to those who see our democracy coming primarily from the point of a pen, i.e., reason, pursuasion, the discourse of ideas amongst fellow Americans through a representative government. This is what creates and constitutes a government and democracy actually worth protecting.

If one feels the need to impose their political views and ideologies upon the majority of their fellow Americans by arms and violence, perhaps its those repellent political views and ideologies that need examination.
I disagree, I see us being attacked on both fronts.

Point of a weapon from criminals on the street and point of a pen from criminals in DC. When the ideals of both those two criminals elements align and feed each other, we have what you have present day.
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 05-06-2013, 12:22 PM   #13
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Millions of people including the NRA were/are against it
There is a difference between individuals and the organization's stance. There are plenty of uber-libs that oppose the PA as well, that are not NRA supporters.

It is clear that the NRA opposed Rand Paul's PA amendment in 2011.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:23 PM   #14
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It is?
Yep. A quick wiki search will show that challenges have been made to the Supreme Court from 1875 to as recently as 2010. The court has been divided. So, I can't argue that you're not allowed guns, per se, but that many Supreme Court justices have argued that the preamble to the Second Amendment was put there for a reason.

Everyone who wants their gun seemingly conveniently ignores the preamble.

Anyway, yes, the jury is still out, since in today's context, we don't have a well-ordered militia...just the military, and it has all the weapons it needs pretty much.

So, it's not just me...there are some Supreme Court Justices who think similarly...just not enough of them!
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:27 PM   #15
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Yep. A quick wiki search will show that challenges have been made to the Supreme Court from 1875 to as recently as 2010. The court has been divided. So, I can't argue that you're not allowed guns, per se, but that many Supreme Court justices have argued that the preamble to the Second Amendment was put there for a reason.

Everyone who wants their gun seemingly conveniently ignores the preamble.

Anyway, yes, the jury is still out, since in today's context, we don't have a well-ordered militia...just the military, and it has all the weapons it needs pretty much.

So, it's not just me...there are some Supreme Court Justices who think similarly...just not enough of them!
lol, this is your funniest bit yet!
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:28 PM   #16
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Not as badly flawed as yours, I'm sorry to say....

First, the jury is still out, you know, on whether non-well-ordered-militia people are entitled to guns, but setting that aside for a moment...

Any right can be infringed. Infringing one doesn't make it any more or less likely that others will be infringed. Where was the clamor about the Patriot Act infringing many citizens' right to privacy from NRA supporters?

And, fyi, I don't oppose people having guns for hunting, personal protection, or just for target practice, but none of those things require a 100 clip magazine. You're not losing any right at all...not yet anyway.
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It is?
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Originally Posted by dmax View Post
Yep. A quick wiki search will show that challenges have been made to the Supreme Court from 1875 to as recently as 2010. The court has been divided. So, I can't argue that you're not allowed guns, per se, but that many Supreme Court justices have argued that the preamble to the Second Amendment was put there for a reason.

Everyone who wants their gun seemingly conveniently ignores the preamble.

Anyway, yes, the jury is still out, since in today's context, we don't have a well-ordered militia...just the military, and it has all the weapons it needs pretty much.

So, it's not just me...there are some Supreme Court Justices who think similarly...just not enough of them!
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:28 PM   #17
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Isn't there an ammo shortage?
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:30 PM   #18
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:32 PM   #19
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Yep. A quick wiki search will show that challenges have been made to the Supreme Court from 1875 to as recently as 2010. The court has been divided. So, I can't argue that you're not allowed guns, per se, but that many Supreme Court justices have argued that the preamble to the Second Amendment was put there for a reason.

Everyone who wants their gun seemingly conveniently ignores the preamble.

Anyway, yes, the jury is still out, since in today's context, we don't have a well-ordered militia...just the military, and it has all the weapons it needs pretty much.

So, it's not just me...there are some Supreme Court Justices who think similarly...just not enough of them!
You're not alone in your education on this subject..... lost

The jury isn't still out, the researcher's light bulb is
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 05-06-2013, 12:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
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SCOTUS had to rule on it to explain this to laymen.
2nd Amendment has always been an INDIVIDUAL right not tied to a militia.
Heller vs. DC

Millions of people including the NRA were/are against it

So, you're a "but" guy?

"I have plenty of black friends and I'm all for their rights, but they should use different water fountains"

WTF is a "100 clip, magazine"? You took the politicians gun 101 course, huh? lol
Sorry...100 round magazine...sorry. How can you avoid 'buts'? Without 'buts' or exceptions/allowances the practice of law would be very simple. Heller had four opposing justices, you know. SCOTUS had to rule to explain it to those four too...not just laymen.

As far as your black friends, when was it that SCOTUS had to explain to the laymen that they're people accorded the same rights as any citizen has? 1965

1965 that SCOTUS said black people can vote freely. Some still don't get it...like those states trying to institute the Voter ID laws recently. Just saying. It's 'currently' settled law, but I don't think all the settling has been done with the Second Amendment.

I should really stay out of Second Amendment/Glennnn Beck threads!
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