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Old 04-16-2013, 01:36 PM   #81
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Well these ball joints are essentially interference fit, correct? Hence needing a 12 ton press to remove and install them. I would say it's plausible, that the aluminum deforms too much during that process to be reusable. Or maybe the number of uses is limited. Or the thermal expansion coefficients are different enough that BMW felt they were better off making them permanently attached for safety reasons, I don't know

Question: Has anyone actually tried removing the ball joints from a stock arm? I'm now reading that BMW doesn't sell replacement ball joints for the E36 M3 arms, and that people just use either Meyle or E30 ball joints instead.

Also want to note that E30 M3 arms are aluminum and also have non-replaceable ball joints

I would think the arms needing a press to fit the baljoints in supports the fact that there's no play. And yeah E30 balljoints are used in the E36 M3 arms.

I don't even remember why we were/are discussing this.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:51 PM   #82
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I would think the arms needing a press to fit the baljoints in supports the fact that there's no play.
Stock. I'm saying removing a ball joint and installing a new one will create play since the aluminum surrounding is more likely to deform

Or maybe it's just a money grab from BMW, who knows.

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Old 04-16-2013, 01:55 PM   #83
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Stock. I'm saying removing a ball joint and installing a new one will create play since the aluminum surrounding is more likely to deform

Or maybe it's just a money grab from BMW, who knows.
I think it would just be easier to get new control arms when and if my Meyles ever fail. So far, I've never heard of a wear/tear-related failure.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:30 PM   #84
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I think it would just be easier to get new control arms when and if my Meyles ever fail. So far, I've never heard of a wear/tear-related failure.
I've read of a couple, but they didn't post their mileage. All I know is that those failures occurred in < 4 years since they got Meyle to warranty them.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=855665

I do want to note that at least in the VW world, Lemförder parts are starting to come from China. All the parts I bought for my M3 last week were made in Germany, but who knows how long that will remain the case. At that point I would have no problem recommending Meyle over Lemförder (though assuming genuine parts are still German made, those would be my preference)

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Old 04-16-2013, 04:49 PM   #85
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My latest genuine BMW VCG was made in Hungary.

Country of manufacture does not matter near as much as who's the parent company.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:23 PM   #86
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I've read of a couple, but they didn't post their mileage. All I know is that those failures occurred in < 4 years since they got Meyle to warranty them.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=855665

I do want to note that at least in the VW world, Lemförder parts are starting to come from China. All the parts I bought for my M3 last week were made in Germany, but who knows how long that will remain the case. At that point I would have no problem recommending Meyle over Lemförder (though assuming genuine parts are still German made, those would be my preference)
Yeah that seems to be an isolated incident with the older design. My friend has over 100k on his Meyle arms/HD bushings (extremely hard canyon miles too as he lives in the canyon) and his are still in perfect shape every time we have his car on the lift. At $300 a pair, the're disposable i would just buy brand new ones again if they ever fail. Lets just hope the Z4M bushings work well with them. (don't see why they wont)
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:17 PM   #87
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My latest genuine BMW VCG was made in Hungary.

Country of manufacture does not matter near as much as who's the parent company.
Disagree. Almost always when a company switches manufacturing to a place like China, a noticeable drop in quality can be seen. And I would generally trust something that's made in Europe far more than something that comes out of China.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:27 PM   #88
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Disagree.
To each their own.
So then you're not going to be a buyer of any Apple or Sony product?
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:52 PM   #89
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Sooo should I get ZHP control arms or Meyle HD's?
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:26 PM   #90
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Sooo should I get ZHP control arms or Meyle HD's?
They're the same thing.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:33 PM   #91
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To each their own.
So then you're not going to be a buyer of any Apple or Sony product?
I don't depend on my iPhone to do anything important and its failure doesn't have the potential to cause me serious injury. And almost all of my iPhones have had random manufacturing defects necessitating replacement (bad mute switches, flickering screens, weird splotches under the screen, radios that randomly drop signal, etc...). Which reminds me? I have to get my MacBook's screen replaced since it exhibits image retention. I haven't bought anything Sony in a long time (and the last one was actually made in Japan iirc)

I would not tolerate such poor quality control for my car parts


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They're the same thing.
No they're not. ZHP arms are Lemförder. meyle doesn't make any OE parts for any company.

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Old 04-16-2013, 11:21 PM   #92
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I don't depend on my iPhone to do anything important and its failure doesn't have the potential to cause me serious injury.
I would not tolerate such poor quality control for my car parts




No they're not. ZHP arms are Lemförder. meyle doesn't make any OE parts for any company.
If you choose inconsistent standards when buying an Apple product vs. your car, then as I said, 'to each their own'
But with probably 95% of the parts you buy for your car, a fail will not cause me serious injury as you say. Brakes and suspension excepted.

And the CA's are the same in terms of being equal to each other. Turner says: Meyle has addressed this problem with metal ball joints, similar to those used on the E46 ZHP. The metal in the HD joint will not wear or fatigue nearly as fast as the standard ball joints. The lifespan is greatly extended. The lack of play will mean sharper steering, restoring much of the car's precision and fun-to-drive character. Meyle is a German brand in business since 1958 and all of their products are TUV approved and meet or exceed ISO standards.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/BMW-...trol-arms.aspx
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:39 PM   #93
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If you choose inconsistent standards when buying an Apple product vs. your car, then as I said, 'to each their own'
But with probably 95% of the parts you buy for your car, a fail will not cause me serious injury as you say. Brakes and suspension excepted.

And the CA's are the same in terms of being equal to each other. Turner says: Meyle has addressed this problem with metal ball joints, similar to those used on the E46 ZHP. The metal in the HD joint will not wear or fatigue nearly as fast as the standard ball joints. The lifespan is greatly extended. The lack of play will mean sharper steering, restoring much of the car's precision and fun-to-drive character. Meyle is a German brand in business since 1958 and all of their products are TUV approved and meet or exceed ISO standards.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/BMW-...trol-arms.aspx
What, now it's unreasonable to apply different standards based on priorities? At the end of the day an iPhone is just a toy. It's not a big deal if my phone exhibits fit/finish issues or is made of inferior metals (much like the iPhone 5's which bend like bananas). My car is something I have fun with yes, but I also depend on it to get me to work, to school, to interviews, to appointments, etc... I can afford to accept some risk with my phone (and I don't actually know of any smart phone made in the US). Also worth mentioning that it costs a hell of a lot more to replace a car than it does to replace a phone.

Also, last I checked, control arms are suspension components.

That's like saying any knockoff is the same as the original product. MeyleHD arms are not the same as the ZHP arms. They may be designed with similar philosophies and methods (I have my doubts about that), but it's incorrect to call them the same.

Meyle and ZHP control arms are the same only in the same way that these two cars are the same:




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Old 04-17-2013, 05:21 PM   #94
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If you're going to compile all your nitpicking toward building the conclusion that Meyle HD control arms with stainless steel ball joints are less than dependable and absolutely safe, you're judgement runs against most of the forum members who use them as the replacement arms of choice. Reality check.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:05 PM   #95
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Meyle HD control arms and ZHP arms aren't the same things in the same way Shell 91 Octane and Chevron 91 Octane aren't the same things. It's moot to mention it. Both ZHP and Meyle HD arms serve the same function and purpose over their intended life expectancy. If both last 100k miles, the user won't notice any difference, especially if that user was blind to what control arms were on the car (think blind taste test)

It's a solid aluminum control arm with solid balljoints on them. There's no play so for its intended life expectancy, both act 100% the same. It's just a metal arm that locates the wheel and allows it to pivot on an identical axis.

The argument could be made that Meyle control arms are superior since they come w/ Meyle HD bushings which are stiffer and longer lasting than the fluid filled bushings the ZHP arms come packaged with.

Dollar for dollar, I'd rather have the ZHP control arms because I know they're BMW-sourced. But unfortunately, the ZHP arms are nearly twice the cost. As Meyle adheres to strict ISO/TUV quality-control standards and I have personal friends that have great experience with them, I lean towards the Meyles. Periodic checks on the lift still show the Meyles to be strong on both my car and my friend's 100k+ mile car. Both cars heavily used in the canyons as well as one autocross session on my car.

A more complex part with moving parts then I would be more inclined towards a BMW part. But remember this is a solid arm with balljoints on either end. Not a wildly complicated part for a reputable suspension parts company.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:23 PM   #96
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If you're going to compile all your nitpicking toward building the conclusion that Meyle HD control arms with stainless steel ball joints are less than dependable and absolutely safe, you're judgement runs against most of the forum members who use them as the replacement arms of choice. Reality check.
My judgment does run contrary to the forum members on that. I take everything repeated on the Internet with a healthy grain of salt. Many people here claim the Hankook Ventus V12 are great tires that compete with the best at a fraction of the cost; before that many people claimed the same thing about Nitto Invos. Boy were they wrong in both cases.

Heck, it wasn't that long ago that I opted for MeyleHD contol arm bushings on my old car. My experience with them was far worse than OEM; I wasn't about to trust them with control arms either. I also have many friends with older BMWs with less than favorable experiences. Restoring to lemforder / ZHP parts brought back the car I bought.

Would I take meyle components over broken OE stuff? Of course. But I'd take new ZHP arms over those any day. The ZHP arms last 100k miles on the low side; even if the Meyle's have similar reliability (something i will remain skeptical of until I see some undeniavle proof), an extra couple hundred dollars is a drop in the bucket over that period.

I don't have to accept anyone's opinion, nor does anyone have to accept mine. But I will openly discuss opinions on a forum since that's what forums are for. And I will call out anyone who states misleading info, like claiming that meyle and ZHP arms are the same. It wouldn't be incorrect to say they're designed similarly, and I could even accept someone saying that you'll get similar use out of them. But saying they're the same is factually wrong. That implies tha meyle is an OEM for BMW, which they're not.

Do Meyle control arms function just as well as the ZHP arms with similar reliability? Maybe. The point is, I don't know. If I don't know what to expect, then I prefer to stick with the part that came OE on the car since I know what to expect out of those. Control arms are relatively simple, but there are still plenty of places where things can go wrong -- otherwise we'd have companies like Hamburg Technic making OE quality arms. Maybe the ball joints aren't made to withstand the same load as OE, maybe the casting process is inferior, maybe they use an inferior grade metal, maybe design compromises had to be made to make the control arms aluminum with removable ball joints. I don't know. There are too many unknowns for me to accept the risk, especially with a company like Meyle which has a less than stellar reputation in almost every other community.

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Old 05-09-2013, 06:08 PM   #97
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the control arm is only as good as the ball joint it has. So say the control arms are built to OEM specs, they can't deflect much from original designs, they can add material, shape the inside openings differently somewhat but suspension components are strictly controlled before they even finalize the design.

What type of aluminum is used by the OEM is known to them, but Aftermarket with a name brand has to at least meet O.E. specs with material or better.

That being said, now we are down to the control arm ball joints. How good are the Meyle HD all metal ball joints? I am sure there are a few bad apples but considering the design they look like they are at least 100k+ mile ball joints.

I had one of my 1988 nissan 300ZXs go 204k miles on OEM ball joints. So technically ball joints are made to last a long time as long as they are all metal designs. I replaced them with cheapie Mevotech ball joints (also all metal) and they went another 96k miles before getting rid of that car.

If your car is eating up ball joints then you are either too low or have lessened your available suspension travel changing suspension geometry immensely..

from an engineering standpoint the Meyles are the better design.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:07 AM   #98
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Sooooo......I just read a lot about Meyle and ZHP (Lemoerder) and to avoid Hamburg Technic, what about Febi? My car has ZHP sport performance package, I got 146K out of them. Tomorrow I will know for sure if I need to replace those or not, I have reason to believe they are now shot along with my Power Flex CAB's (approx. 80K on them)

I can get an excellent price on a set of Febi (special deal at really low price), a good price on Meyle or a lot higher price on Lemoerder. Obviously I want to save money or I wouldn't even been thinking this. However, I look at why spend extra money on something unless it is a "Proven Fact" that one is better than the other. From what I have been reading here, there is nothing totally proven except some say feel of one over the other. Obviously I also want to do this once and not ten times. Sounds like the same argument over cold air intakes.....I can feel the 5 hp gain......

Is there any difference in the shapes of the arms, the angles of the bearing mounting, or the materials of the bearings? From descriptions, all three say they use the new improved bearings. Lemoerder and meyle use it looks to be stainless steel post, Febi I'm guessing is some sort of black steel. Febi also has listed the part number as 31122282122/31122282121 which is the same part number as the Lemoerder ones and the same number as realoem. I have like a $75 difference up in price from Febi to Meyle. On Autohausaz, the difference between febi and lemoerder, is about $20 for the rt one and $58 for the lt one (That makes no sense a difference between the left and right prices...but I'm not making that up)

So based on price alone one would conclude the Febi and Lemoerder are approximately the same. They also offer a TRW (which happens to be sold out) so no idea about the price. They used to offer Meyle but no longer do, wonder why, but I think the price was around $200 each.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:09 AM   #99
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Personally I would stick to Lemforder or Meyle HD for this part.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:53 AM   #100
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My Meyle HD front control arms have a bad ball joint (outer driver's side) after ~ 40k miles. The HD FCABs still look good though. That isn't good enough for me. I'm going to try Leforderer ZHP control arms @ $40. bucks more each, and just for fun, Lemforderer FCABs because they are easier & cheaper to replace.

I think one of our esteemed members has said his Meyle HD arms are at over 100k of 'hard canyon driving'. Probably not the ultimate test for longevity. Try driving that far in NYC and see what shape your ball joints & FCABs are in. I think the roads in Germany are smoother than here too.

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