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Old 06-26-2013, 02:30 PM   #241
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No 6 year old can make this kind of decision
Therein lies your issue: seeing it as a conscious choice. Following your logic, you'd assert that ppl aren't born gay, then.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:32 PM   #242
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I am aware, thank you. Point is, if they were born that way shouldn't we be doing more to help them and to accommodate them? It isn't their fault, wouldn't institutionalization be more proper than prison where they are beaten and occassionally murdered?

I hope you see that I'm making this argument for a reason and not just to be obtuse.

I'd never advocate criminalizing transgenders or anything like that.
I couldn't agree more with the part in bold. I think our criminal "justice" system does more harm than good and creates a culture of recidivism and a perennial underclass of people who can't catch a break.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:37 PM   #243
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I am aware, thank you. Point is, if they were born that way shouldn't we be doing more to help them and to accommodate them? It isn't their fault, wouldn't institutionalization be more proper than prison where they are beaten and occassionally murdered?

I hope you see that I'm making this argument for a reason and not just to be obtuse.

I'd never advocate criminalizing transgenders or anything like that.
I understand what you are saying, and I have questioned that as well.

Personally, I believe we go about trying to stop pedophiles and whatnot all wrong. It's a sexual disorder. They're not actively choosing to find young children attractive, but they are actively choosing to rape, if they do. The problem with today is, if one says out loud, "I think I am a pedophile and I need help," they will get arrested and thrown in jail. Those with those problems are terrified to admit it, so I guess their mentality is "all or nothing," since they will get punished just as hard.

Jail is not going to be a place where they fix themselves or reform themselves. Deep mental therapy from a secured mental institution is what will help them. That sounds like jail, and to some it is, but at least it is a better place for them to be monitored, studied, and hopefully helped.

Now if they rape someone, that's rape, and that's jail-worthy to me. That is an absolute choice that they made.

The problem in today's society is that we go about trying to fix people all wrong. No matter what the problem is, we just send them to jail. We should be learning how to actually rehabilitate someone, not just shlep them off to be beaten.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:40 PM   #244
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I understand what you are saying, and I have questioned that as well.

Personally, I believe we go about trying to stop pedophiles and whatnot all wrong. It's a sexual disorder. They're not actively choosing to find young children attractive, but they are actively choosing to rape, if they do. The problem with today is, if one says out loud, "I think I am a pedophile and I need help," they will get arrested and thrown in jail. Those with those problems are terrified to admit it, so I guess their mentality is "all or nothing," since they will get punished just as hard.

Jail is not going to be a place where they fix themselves or reform themselves. Deep mental therapy from a secured mental institution is what will help them. That sounds like jail, and to some it is, but at least it is a better place for them to be monitored, studied, and hopefully helped.

Now if they rape someone, that's rape, and that's jail-worthy to me. That is an absolute choice that they made.

The problem in today's society is that we go about trying to fix people all wrong. No matter what the problem is, we just send them to jail. We should be learning how to actually rehabilitate someone, not just shlep them off to be beaten.
I don't think I have ever seen this (the part in bold) happen. People will tell therapists things like this frequently without fear of reporting/incarceration. Like I said before, it's not a crime to have a certain mindset. It is a crime to act on that mindset in a way that violates the rights of others (ie: rape).
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:43 PM   #245
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I don't think I have ever seen this (the part in bold) happen. People will tell therapists things like this frequently without fear of reporting/incarceration. Like I said before, it's not a crime to have a certain mindset. It is a crime to act on that mindset in a way that violates the rights of others (ie: rape).
Yeah I don't know how the confidentiality agreement works with therapists. I should ask one some time. Can you say you killed someone to a therapist and they can't say anything?
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:50 PM   #246
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Yeah I don't know how the confidentiality agreement works with therapists. I should ask one some time. Can you say you killed someone to a therapist and they can't say anything?
I don't believe so. I'm also not sure you could go in and admit to child rape without mandatory reporting requirements kicking in.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:12 PM   #247
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This child is too young to decide that he is transgendered. He has no clue at that age from male or female.

His parents are nuts and should be arrested for steering him in this manner. This is child abuse.
Just IMHO
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:58 PM   #248
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This child is too young to decide that he is transgendered. He has no clue at that age from male or female.

His parents are nuts and should be arrested for steering him in this manner. This is child abuse.
Just IMHO
I agree, at age 6 you hardly even understand what sexuality even is. I didn't even know what "gay" was until 3rd grade when some kid called Pikachu a f4ggot
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:00 PM   #249
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I couldn't agree more with the part in bold. I think our criminal "justice" system does more harm than good and creates a culture of recidivism and a perennial underclass of people who can't catch a break.
There are a lot of poor people that don't rob banks, rape women or sling dope on the street.

I don't feel sorry for anyone in prison.

Before someone goes to prison in our society they have probably spent time in a local jail and been on probation 1,2 times.

Prison is the last stop after many infractions. You don't need to lose sleep over them.
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:39 PM   #250
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There are a lot of poor people that don't rob banks, rape women or sling dope on the street.

I don't feel sorry for anyone in prison.

Before someone goes to prison in our society they have probably spent time in a local jail and been on probation 1,2 times.

Prison is the last stop after many infractions. You don't need to lose sleep over them.
It's not that a feel sorry for them. I just don't appreciate the current system that essentially guarantees a recidivism rate in the neighborhood of 80 percent. If states would throw a little money at rehab and reentry into society instead of rushing to incarcerate, we would not only lower the crime rates but save billions of dollars a year. But that's not how things are done.
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:46 PM   #251
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It's not that a feel sorry for them. I just don't appreciate the current system that essentially guarantees a recidivism rate in the neighborhood of 80 percent. If states would throw a little money at rehab and reentry into society instead of rushing to incarcerate, we would not only lower the crime rates but save billions of dollars a year. But that's not how things are done.
I basically agree with what you say but I become irritated when people are so concerned with the criminal and not the victim and their rehabilitation. A clerk that is robbed at 7 11 or a woman that is raped or a family that has their home broken into is basically left to pick up the pieces themselves.

But the criminal is told its not his fault because he is poor or because he comes from a broken home or he might even blame it on Bush.

However, I think that if marijuana and cocaine were legalized like they used to be, crime would go way down overnight.

BTW, back in the 1800's they used to have 'smelling salts' was that cocaine ?
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:50 PM   #252
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I basically agree with what you say but I become irritated when people are so concerned with the criminal and not the victim and their rehabilitation. A clerk that is robbed at 7 11 or a woman that is raped or a family that has their home broken into is basically left to pick up the pieces themselves.

But the criminal is told its not his fault because he is poor or because he comes from a broken home or he might even blame it on Bush.

However, I think that if marijuana and cocaine were legalized like they used to be, crime would go way down overnight.

BTW, back in the 1800's they used to have 'smelling salts' was that cocaine ?
I'm definitely more interested in the rights of victims. But I also hate to see a bunch of money being pissed away on a revolving door system. I suppose I'd be equally happy with a system that locked up people for much longer terms for crimes, as long as it helped lower costs to the public (ie: me).

I think smelling salts were/are mostly ammonia-based.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:45 PM   #253
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I understand what you are saying, and I have questioned that as well.

Personally, I believe we go about trying to stop pedophiles and whatnot all wrong. It's a sexual disorder. They're not actively choosing to find young children attractive, but they are actively choosing to rape, if they do. The problem with today is, if one says out loud, "I think I am a pedophile and I need help," they will get arrested and thrown in jail. Those with those problems are terrified to admit it, so I guess their mentality is "all or nothing," since they will get punished just as hard.

Jail is not going to be a place where they fix themselves or reform themselves. Deep mental therapy from a secured mental institution is what will help them. That sounds like jail, and to some it is, but at least it is a better place for them to be monitored, studied, and hopefully helped.

Now if they rape someone, that's rape, and that's jail-worthy to me. That is an absolute choice that they made.

The problem in today's society is that we go about trying to fix people all wrong. No matter what the problem is, we just send them to jail. We should be learning how to actually rehabilitate someone, not just shlep them off to be beaten.
Can you cite a single instance, ever, of someone in the US saying "I think I'm a pedophile" and being put in jail because of it? Or is that a statement that you just pulled out of your ass?

FWIW, I do agree with a lot of what you say. I would like us to dedicate more resources to extra-judicial treatment, therapy, support, etc for people whose mental make-up makes it difficult for them to adhere to social norms. But there's always going to be the issue of people that don't want "help" and the degree to which we want to force them to accept it. But that's an entirely different discussion.

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This child is too young to decide that he is transgendered. He has no clue at that age from male or female.

His parents are nuts and should be arrested for steering him in this manner. This is child abuse.
Just IMHO
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I agree, at age 6 you hardly even understand what sexuality even is. I didn't even know what "gay" was until 3rd grade when some kid called Pikachu a f4ggot
You guys are confusing pubescent and adult sexual orientation with gender identity. This kid's gender identity has nothing to do with sexual activity, sexual desires, or really anything to do with the way they relate to other people sexually.

A 4 year old girl acts like a girl, which is very different from the way a 4 year old boy acts. Their behavior is gender-specific, driven by the differences in their brains IN ADDITION to the way they're treated by the people around them. It has NOTHING to do with their sexual orientation, or who they're eventually going to be sexually attracted to.

At age 6, it IS about gender identity. And you're right, the kid is too young to make a bunch of conscious, reasoned choices about it. Which just increases the argument that the kid was born with male sexual organs but a female or female-inclined brain. And if that's the case, you calling this child abuse or blaming the parents is beyond ridiculous.


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I basically agree with what you say but I become irritated when people are so concerned with the criminal and not the victim and their rehabilitation. A clerk that is robbed at 7 11 or a woman that is raped or a family that has their home broken into is basically left to pick up the pieces themselves.

But the criminal is told its not his fault because he is poor or because he comes from a broken home or he might even blame it on Bush.

However, I think that if marijuana and cocaine were legalized like they used to be, crime would go way down overnight.

BTW, back in the 1800's they used to have 'smelling salts' was that cocaine ?
No. Smelling salts release a noxious vapor. When someone inhales the vapor into their nose, the shock of the vapor hitting their mucous membranes is a little like an electric shock. If they're drowsy or semi-conscious, they snap fully awake, breathe faster, heart rate speeds up, etc.

But it's not because they've ingested the chemical into their bloodstream the way cocaine or other stimulants work. The physical reaction is similar to if you jumped out of a hiding place and scared them, or snuck up behind them and set off a firecracker.

You've probably seen smelling salts being used (either in movies or IRL) on boxers that have been hit in the head a few too many times during a fight. They wave the tube under the boxers nose and as soon as the vapors get into his nose, he snaps "awake" more than he was before.

They're not used much anymore, because the general thought now is if someone is unconscious or semi-conscious, they're that way for a reason and it's best to let the body resume consciousness on it's own.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:04 PM   #254
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A 4 year old girl acts like a girl, which is very different from the way a 4 year old boy acts. Their behavior is gender-specific, driven by the differences in their brains IN ADDITION to the way they're treated by the people around them. It has NOTHING to do with their sexual orientation, or who they're eventually going to be sexually attracted to.
What effect do you suppose parents would have on a child that told said child from day 1 that they were the opposite gender and treated said child as such?
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:14 PM   #255
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What effect do you suppose parents would have on a child that told said child from day 1 that they were the opposite gender and treated said child as such?
If someone is born with a female brain and male genitals, which are they?
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:26 PM   #256
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If someone is born with a female brain and male genitals, which are they?
XX = female
XXX = super female
XY = male

Are you implying that all transgenders are born with opposite brains of their genitals? Challenge.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:37 PM   #257
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XX = female
XXX = super female
XY = male

Are you implying that all transgenders are born with opposite brains of their genitals? Challenge.
There's also XXY, XYY, XXXX, XXXXX, and a whole host of other chromosomal abnormalities.

And I got a kick out of super female, lol.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:53 PM   #258
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There's also XXY, XYY, XXXX, XXXXX, and a whole host of other chromosomal abnormalities.

And I got a kick out of super female, lol.
that's actually what it was once referred to as, for real

http://anthro.palomar.edu/abnormal/abnormal_5.htm
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:02 PM   #259
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If someone is born with a female brain and male genitals, which are they?
they are really confused.

they are biologically male. and that means, at least in my opinion. they should be in the male bathroom.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:58 PM   #260
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what effect do you suppose parents would have on a child that told said child from day 1 that they were the opposite gender and treated said child as such?
bingo!!
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