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Old 08-23-2013, 09:38 AM   #21
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Fiscally responsible? What party, pray tell, are you referring to?
yeah I don't know if I can name 10 people in government that are actually fiscally responsible
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:49 AM   #22
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This is great

And should anyone be surprised that the Republican Party is dwindling
The GOP is dwindling because of the GIMME attitude of today's citizens. Accountability died some years back. The liberal agenda aligns to those that don't want to be responsible for their actions and believe that America should be disproportionately accountable for others mistakes.

If the GOP distances itself from moral issues, resurgence is possible.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:53 AM   #23
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If the GOP distances itself from moral issues, resurgence is possible.
That, and if they become the ACTUAL party of fiscal responsibility, as opposed to talking about being party of fiscal responsibility and acting like the exact opposite.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:55 AM   #24
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That, and if they become the ACTUAL party of fiscal responsibility, as opposed to talking about being party of fiscal responsibility and acting like the exact opposite.
On the whole, they tend to seek a "more balanced" budget than there liberal counterparts. Each side has their spending interests.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:12 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Carskibum View Post

If the GOP distances itself from moral issues, resurgence is possible.
+1

and religious issues

and women's issues

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Old 08-23-2013, 12:15 PM   #26
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The GOP is dwindling because of the GIMME attitude of today's citizens. Accountability died some years back. The liberal agenda aligns to those that don't want to be responsible for their actions and believe that America should be disproportionately accountable for others mistakes.
That's just what the Koch brothers want you to believe (and spend millions on dollars so that you do).

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If the GOP distances itself from moral issues, resurgence is possible.
A proper safety net, healthcare and education ARE moral issues.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:57 PM   #27
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That's just what the Koch brothers want you to believe (and spend millions on dollars so that you do).


A proper safety net, healthcare and education ARE moral issues.
Proper safety net and what liberals push are different ballparks, different planets. Healthcare should be subsidized for only those folks that are incapable of providing it for themselves. Not because they refuse take actions in their lives to earn a feasible income.

As for education, very much at the state level. I can speak for NJ and note the rape we have faced at the hands of the teacher's unions. Inefficiency combined with sub par teachers have resulted in bloated and poor school districts. I support putting no more cash into school, instead managing them better.

When I say morals, I mean that the GOP needs to embrace their own small government ramblings. If gay people want to marry, if a woman wants an abortion, a guy wants to smoke a joint.... Go FOR IT. The government should not stand in their way.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:04 PM   #28
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Proper safety net and what liberals push are different ballparks, different planets. Healthcare should be subsidized for only those folks that are incapable of providing it for themselves. Not because they refuse take actions in their lives to earn a feasible income.
Based on what information have you determined that people don't "take action in their lives"?

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When I say morals, I mean that the GOP needs to embrace their own small government ramblings. If gay people want to marry, if a woman wants an abortion, a guy wants to smoke a joint.... Go FOR IT. The government should not stand in their way.
Agreed, but like I said, morals apply to a lot more than that. I think it is the moral duty of this country to care for it's poor. I brought this up recently in this thread:
Milton Friedman advocated a "Negative Income Tax" where people who fall below a certain level of earnings receive money from the government to ensure a guaranteed minimum income. If this isn't redistribution of wealth, I don't know what is. Meanwhile, today's Republicans are constantly spreading the falsehood that 47% of the country pay no taxes at all and making absurd claims like the safety net has become a "hammock".

Friedrich Hayek advocated "assured minimum income":

"There is no reason why in a free society government should not assure to all, protection against severe deprivation in the form of an assured minimum income, or a floor below which nobody need descend. To enter into such an insurance against extreme misfortune may well be in the interest of all; or it may be felt to be a clear moral duty of all to assist, within the organised community, those who cannot help themselves. So long as such a uniform minimum income is provided outside the market to all those who, for any reason, are unable to earn in the market an adequate maintenance, this need not lead to a restriction of freedom, or conflict with the Rule of Law."[1973. Law, Legislation, and Liberty]

On health care:

"Nor is there any reason why the state should not assist the individuals in providing for those common hazards of life against which, because of their uncertainty, few individuals can make adequate provision. Where, as in the case of sickness and accident, neither the desire to avoid such calamities nor the efforts to overcome their consequences are as a rule weakened by the provision of assistance – where, in short, we deal with genuinely insurable risks – the case for the state's helping to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance is very strong.... Wherever communal action can mitigate disasters against which the individual can neither attempt to guard himself nor make the provision for the consequences, such communal action should undoubtedly be taken." [Road to Serfdom]

Road to Serfdom, by the way, was distributed by Paul Ryan. He must not have read this part:

"There is no reason why, in a society which has reached the general level of wealth ours has, the first kind of security should not be guaranteed to all without endangering general freedom; that is: some minimum of food, shelter and clothing, sufficient to preserve health. Nor is there any reason why the state should not help to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance in providing for those common hazards of life against which few can make adequate provision."

Finally, he says: "In no system that could be rationally defended would the state just do nothing."
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:11 PM   #29
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The GOP is dwindling because of the GIMME attitude of today's citizens.
Wrong. The GOP is dwindling because they insult everyone. And you're really kidding yourself if you thing the GOP doesn't also have a gimme attitude also. Wakeup.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:13 PM   #30
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On the whole, they tend to seek a "more balanced" budget than there liberal counterparts. Each side has their spending interests.
Conservatives are REALLY good at painting themselves as fiscally responsible by hiding their debt and passing it on to the next generation (or two).


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The Underestimated Costs, and Price Tag, of the Iraq War


By Seth Cline
March 20, 2013

The Bush administration estimated the Iraq war would cost $50 to $60 billion, including the costs of reconstruction and clean up. As of 2013, the war is estimated to have cost nearly 30 times that estimate.


The Iraq War, by most accounts, has not aged well. In the 10 years since the conflict began, public opinion on it has soured, and the country remains damaged and corrupt. The casualties total in the tens of thousands, and weapons of mass destruction were never found.


Aside from these facts, there are more dispassionate numbers that tell a story of Iraq: budget figures.

As U.S. News' James Pethokoukis and Matthew Benjamin document below, lawmakers vastly underestimated the conflict's price tag.

"[Congressional Budget Office] estimates a price tag of $14 billion for the war itself and $8 billion to $10 billion a month, for an unspecified period, after hostilities cease," Pethokoukis and Benjamin wrote in 2003.

The Bush administration estimated the war would cost $50 to $60 billion, including the costs of reconstruction and clean up. As of 2013, the Cost of War Project estimates the war has cost $1.7 trillion—nearly 30 times the pre-war estimate. That cost doesn't factor in future costs of veterans' care, which push the total to more than $2.1 trillion. The Veterans Administration spending related to Iraq—which totals $45 billion—is almost as much as the Bush administration's overall cost estimate.

Another number sticks out in the authors' budget-focused look at the upcoming war.

"(E)conomic conditions continue to deteriorate. The price of oil hit $37 a barrel earlier this month," they wrote.

Oil prices fluctuate and are attributable to many complex factors, but the current price of oil hovers around $92 a barrel, more than twice the 2003 price. For a war many have charged was at least partly about oil—something a former Bush speech writer even admitted Tuesday—the conflict has led to no lasting difference in U.S. oil imports from Iraq. In fact, if anything, it's a decrease now.

As Pethokoukis and Benjamin predicted, the Iraq War was indeed a "budget bog," muckier and more costly than even they feared.
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/pre...f-the-iraq-war
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:46 PM   #31
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Re: Many Louisiana Republicans blame President Obama for Hurricane Katrina response.

While the Repubs talk a big game about fiscal responsibility, the historical records shows that, at best, they are no worse than the Dems and probably are actually worse, tending not to match receipts (taxes) to outlays resulting in deficits and debts.

At least the Dems are honest and upfront in this regard: "we intend to spend X much which will need to be paid for with X amount of taxes." Agree or disagree with the amount, X, at least it's honest and you know what you're in for.

Now, maybe, this time they really truly do mean it, but their history leaves a huge credibility gap.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:56 PM   #32
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Re: Many Louisiana Republicans blame President Obama for Hurricane Katrina response.

And, BTT (back to topic), WTF, is the GOP base so deluded by reflexive anti-Obamaism that they truly believe that a junior senator from some northern state had more to do with the Katrina response debacle than the recently re- elected sitting president of the U.S.?

Mind boggling!
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:17 AM   #33
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That, and if they become the ACTUAL party of fiscal responsibility, as opposed to talking about being party of fiscal responsibility and acting like the exact opposite.
Very few people propably understand fiscal responsibility in the society we live in today.

Oh and from the article, the poll apparently was conducted at TPM.

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Commentary on political events from a politically left perspective, by Joshua Micah Marshall.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:20 AM   #34
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What is TPM?
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:33 AM   #35
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What is TPM?
Talking Points Memo. The description of the blog is up above.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:36 AM   #36
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Talking Points Memo. The description of the blog is up above.
oh I see, what is the significance? I'm a bit confused, it's early. Was this a ruse? Why would Louisiana Republicans frequent such a place?
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