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Suspension & Braking Forum by BimmerWorld
Have some questions about suspension or brake setups for your E46 BMW? Get all your answers here!
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:06 PM   #361
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I think you missed my point Stinger.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:14 PM   #362
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I think you missed my point Stinger.
I'm just indulging myself.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:21 PM   #363
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I thought you guys knew more about this than you do. Let me explain using one corner and one chassis adjustment as an example.

You're a BMW Engineer and you're optimizing the sport suspension ride at the front right corner. You've measured that you're experiencing some chassis flexing and you decide to counter the effect with a camber adjustment. Problem coped with.

With me so far?

Now you're the Fanatic that bought that car and you bolt on an aftermarket shock tower brace. OK.
Is it possible you should dial out the camber to reverse the flex adjustment the BMW Engineer dialed into the chassis?

Remember, this is one simple example. You need to evaluate other suspension variables as well.

Get it?

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Last edited by Mr Podman; 08-29-2013 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:27 PM   #364
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So...........you're slumming by writing here?
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:33 PM   #365
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So...........you're slumming by writing here?
I didn't think so.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:37 PM   #366
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I didn't think so.
Belies your verbiage.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:39 PM   #367
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Belies your verbiage.
I can see how it could be read that way, not how I meant it.

People spend their careers tuning chassis for various uses. Every one of them will emphasis how changing one thing affects the others, and often not in the way they expected. It's a complex, time consuming and data driven encounter.

Then you have the bolt-on bling market. None of us want to be that guy at Bimmerfest with his hood up and his faux carbon fiber gleaming in the sun.




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Old 08-29-2013, 09:40 PM   #368
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Re: Coupe vs Sedan handling

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While we're comparing apples to oranges are you saying a 95 civic coupe would out handle a 4 door e90 M3?


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No, but I would say a nicely built Integra type R (just enough to put down the same #s or power:weight) would definitely give the e90 a run for it's money... if not out handle and/or beat it outright.

But have you ever driven an IS300 or an NA Supra? Both have a 2jzge and aside from suspension differences and the obvious... and I think you would be very surprised. This topic has steered from overall handling to minute details, such as the absence/presence of the backseat - something the IS doesn't have. That being said, I must agree with some of you that the absence of a backseat helps but mainly because the Supra handles like a boat because of it's wide stance. However, the IS has more body roll and a sport suspension would help greatly.

That being said, there is a reason a Supra is A stock, and the IS, D. 2jzgte or TT > IS no doubt. Put some aftermarket's suspension on that Supra... there's no way the IS (single or twin, & on suspension) stands a chance imo.


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Old 08-29-2013, 09:46 PM   #369
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I don't know why I keep coming back to this train wreck of a thread but I do
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:59 PM   #370
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I don't know why I keep coming back to this train wreck of a thread
Think of it as educational TV
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:57 PM   #371
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:28 PM   #372
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Coupe vs Sedan handling

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No, but I would say a nicely built Integra type R (just enough to put down the same #s or power:weight) would definitely give the e90 a run for it's money... if not out handle and/or beat it outright.

But have you ever driven an IS300 or an NA Supra? Both have a 2jzge and aside from suspension differences and the obvious... and I think you would be very surprised. This topic has steered from overall handling to minute details, such as the absence/presence of the backseat - something the IS doesn't have. That being said, I must agree with some of you that the absence of a backseat helps but mainly because the Supra handles like a boat because of it's wide stance. However, the IS has more body roll and a sport suspension would help greatly.

That being said, there is a reason a Supra is A stock, and the IS, D. 2jzgte or TT > IS no doubt. Put some aftermarket's suspension on that Supra... there's no way the IS (single or twin, & on suspension) stands a chance imo.


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What in gods name are you talking about? No backseat, what? Integra beating an E90 M3? Huh? You are completely lost and so far from reality that its actually funny. Putting aside the ridiculous claims you are making, I have to ask did you even read the thread here to see what the topic is? I ask because you are talking gibberish.


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Old 08-30-2013, 12:50 AM   #373
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Re: Coupe vs Sedan handling

Alright man, why don't you just read my posts and who were responding to them.. Mango has been harping on the fact that no backseat adds rigidity to the car as well as other functions.. and having no backseat helps with handling. Therefore, a sedan should handle better than a coupe. He's been saying that since page 1 or 2.

Mango then brought up the topic of the older IS and how they don't have a backseat - couple posts before mine.
I then asked if he thought my IS would be able to take on an NA Supra in an autoX course. I'm fairly confident I could. To which Mango replied correctly and the other guy asked me sarcastically if a civic could take an e90 m3... assuming we were still on the topic of autoX I said...

Well you quoted me, so read before writing. Thanks
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:58 AM   #374
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Don't overthink this. Having split fold down seats does not mean your car will handle poorly. The more rigid a base a car has for the suspension to work from, the better. Whether or not this can be demonstrated in lap times is yet to be seen. All I know is, I prefer to have as many advantages as I can while retaining comfort and streetability.

Ideally, this is manual, rear wheel drive, no split seats, and a sedan chassis. Add no sunroof to that list and you have yourself a winner. I like my sunroof though and IMO, a BMW wouldn't be complete without one.
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:16 AM   #375
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Re: Coupe vs Sedan handling

Ahh ok... now I see your true rational! Haha
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:42 AM   #376
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You've got 10 E46's.
5 with split seats, 5 without.
The back seats are covered visually so you can't see them
Your job is to identify the five with split seats by assessing their driving performance.
You have all day to drive them where ever you want.

How well do you think you'd do?


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Last edited by Mr Podman; 08-30-2013 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:53 AM   #377
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You've got 10 E46's.
5 with split seats, 5 without.
The back seats are covered visually so you can't see them
Your job is to identify the five with split seats by assessing their driving performance.
You have all day to drive them where ever you want.

How well do you think you'd do?


.
Knowing me, I say I would probably put at least 3 of them into the hay bales.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:08 AM   #378
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Knowing me, I say I would probably put at least 3 of them into the hay bales.
That's the fun of it. Bale one and call for the next to be brought around!
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:35 AM   #379
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Here's another perspective.

Let's say you just bought a Dodge Viper and you attend a meet and greet of Viper owners.

You sit down at a table of fellow owners. To the left is a discussion about who's Viper is better than who's. To the right is a discussion about how Vipers can beat Corvettes and Porches.

Which of the two discussions would you find more interesting to engage in?
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:38 AM   #380
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Which of the two discussions would you find more interesting to engage in?
Which car is a more powerful babe-magnet, the Porsche or the Viper?
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