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Old 09-05-2013, 03:36 PM   #481
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Blue.
You're good!
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:01 PM   #482
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:20 PM   #483
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In summary - let the Rest Of World figure this one out.
We've figured it out on this side of the pond. I'll be on the couch, cold drink in hand, watching the results as they roll in on the newscasts.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:39 PM   #484
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We've figured it out on this side of the pond. I'll be on the couch, cold drink in hand, watching the results as they roll in on the newscasts.
The problem is that the blowback is not going to confine itself to just those who supported the attacks. On both sides of the pond.

I have a bad feeling about this one.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #485
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The problem is that the blowback is not going to confine itself to just those who supported the attacks. On both sides of the pond.

I have a bad feeling about this one.
Yep...and the rebels released another execution video today. Nothing like supporting/helping the guys we are fighting in Afghanistan in Syria. I am at the point where I do not see the justification of an attack. Democracy will not come from removing Assad. As much as Assad needs to go, I don't think this is the time to do it.

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:49 PM   #486
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John Boehner refuses to meet with Russians to discuss this.
Obama and Putin meeting was not productive.
And now Harry Reid refusing to meet with the Russians to discuss Syria.

Snubbing the Russians by refusing any type of dialogue. Bad diplomacy.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:33 PM   #487
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Blue.
The sky is blue and so is the sea. Are you saying the world might be biased?
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:26 PM   #488
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Whom are you rooting for here?
How can thee great 'Busa doubt who's side I'm on? Here's what upsets me, it's like watching my home team (who I always root for) being led by an incompetent coach, making all the bad plays, doing the opposite and showing no signs of leadership, simply blaming the players for all that goes wrong. Why not use a current event example:

my credibility's not on the line. The international community's credibility is on the line, and America and Congress' credibility is on the line because we give lip service to the notion that these international norms are important..


"First of all, I didn't set a red line," said Obama. "The world set a red line. The world set a red line when governments representing 98 percent of the world's population said the use of chemical weapons are [inaudble] and passed a treaty forbidding their use, even when countries are engaged in war. Congress set a red line when it ratified that treaty.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ni...-not-americas/

As you can see, his passion for eliminating chemical weapons...can wait until September 9th, when he drags everyone else into what he can't act on as a leader. That shows weakness, weakness to the world, and weakness to our enemies, it's no wonder Putin is openly offending our leaders, our country, and sending more and more warships to Syria, because it's pretty obvious at this point; Obama and his crew don't know wt f they are doing. Have you paid attention to the the middle finger Putin has been shoving up Hillary's and Obama's nose since they took over? Why did Hillary leave? She had no support from Obama on world affairs, whether he was scared, intimidated or just not interested, he did nothing to help deal with Russia. So Russia has comfortably done with it wants for the past 6 years, including strengthening it's old relationship with Syria, securing a chess piece in the land of oil.

Should Obama decide upon a light attack, and Assad dusts it off, he will look weak, and nobody on the world stage will take him serious. Should he decimate the Syrian regime, this could spark off intervention from Russia, and China, Iran, etc.. the world isn't backing us this time, Is his ego worth it? Is either a good option at the moment? I puke at our Republocrats voting and supporting this, but they only do it so if this blows up and goes to hell, they can use it as ammo against Obama, a show of fake self serving solidarity, likewise Obama and the media will do the same blame game. Regardless, he's played this wrong since the start of the uprising, and now were here. You support this guy? Then who are you rooting for? You and I live in two different worlds, you Obama and people of your ideologies, strive for a world where the influence of this country on the world is diminished, because in your eyes this country is evil, it's a greedy corporate monster, pillaging the resources of the world, bla bla bla, but you fail to see what other world power brokers are going to fill those gaps, proliferate, and become stronger.

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Old 09-05-2013, 08:30 PM   #489
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The sky is blue and so is the sea. Are you saying the world might be biased?
I dunno that I'd go with "biased," but the World is definitely fickle.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:54 PM   #490
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Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

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I dunno that I'd go with "biased," but the World is definitely fickle.
Sounds like a conspiracy I can believe in.


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Old 09-05-2013, 09:04 PM   #491
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How can thee great 'Busa doubt who's side I'm on? Here's what upsets me, it's like watching my home team (who I always root for) being led by an incompetent coach, making all the bad plays, doing the opposite and showing no signs of leadership, simply blaming the players for all that goes wrong. Why not use a current event example:

my credibility's not on the line. The international community's credibility is on the line, and America and Congress' credibility is on the line because we give lip service to the notion that these international norms are important..


"First of all, I didn't set a red line," said Obama. "The world set a red line. The world set a red line when governments representing 98 percent of the world's population said the use of chemical weapons are [inaudble] and passed a treaty forbidding their use, even when countries are engaged in war. Congress set a red line when it ratified that treaty.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ni...-not-americas/

As you can see, his passion for eliminating chemical weapons...can wait until September 9th, when he drags everyone else into what he can't act on as a leader. That shows weakness, weakness to the world, and weakness to our enemies, it's no wonder Putin is openly offending our leaders, our country, and sending more and more warships to Syria, because it's pretty obvious at this point; Obama and his crew don't know wt f they are doing. Have you paid attention to the the middle finger Putin has been shoving up Hillary's and Obama's nose since they took over? Why did Hillary leave? She had no support from Obama on world affairs, whether he was scared, intimidated or just not interested, he did nothing to help deal with Russia. So Russia has comfortably done with it wants for the past 6 years, including strengthening it's old relationship with Syria, securing a chess piece in the land of oil.

Should Obama decide upon a light attack, and Assad dusts it off, he will look weak, and nobody on the world stage will take him serious. Should he decimate the Syrian regime, this could spark off intervention from Russia, and China, Iran, etc.. the world isn't backing us this time, Is his ego worth it? Is either a good option at the moment? I puke at our Republocrats voting and supporting this, but they only do it so if this blows up and goes to hell, they can use it as ammo against Obama, a show of fake self serving solidarity, likewise Obama and the media will do the same blame game. Regardless, he's played this wrong since the start of the uprising, and now were here. You support this guy? Then who are you rooting for? You and I live in two different worlds, you Obama and people of your ideologies, strive for a world where the influence of this country on the world is diminished, because in your eyes this country is evil, it's a greedy corporate monster, pillaging the resources of the world, bla bla bla, but you fail to see what other world power brokers are going to fill those gaps, proliferate, and become stronger.

Agree 95% except I think anyone voting for this from the GOP side is doing it because they either believe in it or feel they must support the President of we look weak. I don't see any political advantage in voting against the people on this one.
I also have real concerns about who will replace Assad if he loses. The "rebels" have been using car bombs, suicide attacks and IEDs for 2 years now. They did not just now start having terrorist proclivities.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:47 PM   #492
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Where did Syria get the gas from?
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Source on confirmation of opposition using chemical weapons?


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Rebel leaders


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Either/any. As far as I'd seen, the first UN inspectors were getting there this week to investigate.


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make sure they investigate the Rebels too.

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Sounds like a conspiracy I can believe in.


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The individual in the clip, Nadeem Baloosh, is a member of an insurgent group called Riyadh Al Abdeen, which is active in the Latakia area of Syria.


Baloosh speaks of "chemicals which produce lethal and deadly gases that I possess," before going on to state, "We decided to harm them through their women and kids."


Baloosh ponders if it is acceptable to harm women and children before quoting the Koran, "Fight them as they fight you. " He goes on to quote Osama Bin Laden (whom other rebel groups have openly praised).

"We'll kill their women and children like Sheikh Osama Bin Laden said - "until they cease killing our women and kids," he states.

Baloosh goes on to talk about the Syrian Army approaching the area where his rebel group was located, before stating, "So we had the idea that this weapon was very powerful and effective to repel them, we announced if they approached one meter, everything is permitted."

"We will strike them in their homes, we will turn their day into night and their night into day," adds Baloosh.

The footage adds to the increasing weight of evidence that suggests US-backed rebels possess and have used chemical weapons on more than one occasion, although such reports have been habitually downplayed by the mainstream media.

Earlier today Russia announced that it had compiled a 100 page report proving opposition rebels "were behind a deadly sarin gas attack in an Aleppo suburb earlier this year."


more.............

I included the hyperlink to keep Busa happy.

And before you say .....it's from infowars...........the source is not as important as the message and it is hard to argue with an unedited confession. A bigger question is why major media outlets are not spending more time covering it and questioning Obama, Kerry and Hagel.

http://www.infowars.com/video-syrian...mical-weapons/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=V5kda1KhqlU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...5kda1KhqlU#t=0
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:57 AM   #493
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http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backc...s-the-evidence

A middle of the road view above, a right wing view below:

http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/20...qaeda-history/

An unconfirmed blog report that raises some questions:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/...l-weapons.html

All of this confusion has moved me away from being a reluctant supporter of a murderous campaign by our President to a staunch backer of a wait and see approach.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:06 AM   #494
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Not looking well for the POTUS...

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Obama trying to sway war-weary public on Syria

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama is hitting the airwaves to try to convince Americans that limited strikes against Syria are needed for the United States' long-term safety, while Secretary of State John Kerry is vehemently defending the case against President Bashar Assad, saying his denial of chemical weapons use is "contradicted by fact."

Obama on Monday planned to make his case for punishing Assad for what the United States argues was his decision to use chemical weapons against his own people - a charge Assad denied in a new interview.

Assad warned of retaliation against the U.S. for any military strike in Syria. "You should expect everything," Assad said in the interview aired Monday on CBS' "This Morning."

Asked if he was making a threat of a direct military response to an attack, Assad was vague, saying at one point, "I am not fortune teller to tell you what's going to happen." He added: "It's not only the government (that's) the only player in this region. You have different parties. You have different factions. You have different ideology. You have everything in this region now. So you have to expect that."

Obama administration officials, meanwhile, planned more classified briefings on Capitol Hill. And White House national security adviser Susan Rice is scheduled to speak at a Washington think tank timed to the public relations blitz aimed at ensuring people the administration isn't contemplating another commitment like Iraq and Afghanistan.

In the new interview, Assad told American journalist Charlie Rose there is no conclusive evidence about who is to blame for the chemical weapons attacks and again suggested the rebels were responsible. Rose said Assad also warned him previous U.S. military efforts in the region have proved disastrous.

And Assad argued the evidence Kerry has disclosed amounts to a "big lie" that resembles the case for war in Iraq that Secretary of State Colin Powell made to the United Nations over a decade ago.

Appearing Monday at a news conference in London with British Foreign Secretary William Hague, Kerry said of Assad: "What does he offer? Words that are contradicted by fact."

"We know that his regime gave orders to prepare for a chemical attack. We know they deployed forces," the secretary said. He added that the United States knows "where the rockets came from and where they landed ... and it was no accident that they all came from regime -controlled territory and all landed" in opposition-held territory.

"So the evidence is powerful and the question for all of us is, what are we going to do about it. Turn our backs? Have a moment of silence?"

He said that if Assad wanted to defuse the crisis, "he could turn every single bit of his chemical weapons over to the international community" within a week. But he said that Assad "isn't about to do it."

Pressed further on Assad's denials, Kerry said, "I just answered that. I just gave you real evidence. Evidence that as a former prosecutor in the United States I could take into a courtroom and get admitted."

Meanwhile, Russian and Syrian foreign ministers said they will push for the return of United Nations inspectors to Syria to continue their probe into the use of chemical weapons. Russia's Sergey Lavrov said after Monday's talks with his Syrian counterpart Walid al-Moallem that Moscow will continue to promote a peaceful settlement and may try to convene a gathering of all Syrian opposition figures who are interested in peaceful settlement.

Lavrov said that a U.S. attack on Syria will deal a fatal blow to peace efforts.

Obama plans a series of interviews Monday and will meet with Senate Democrats Tuesday to seek support for U.S. military action against the government of Syria, according to two Senate Democratic aides. The meeting at the Capitol would come just hours before Obama addresses the nation in a prime-time speech on Syria from the White House.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who is scheduled to speak Monday at a White House event on wildlife trafficking, planned to reiterate her support of Obama's efforts to pass the Syria resolution, according to a Clinton aide who spoke on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to speak publicly.

With Congress set to have its first votes authorizing limited strikes into Syria as early as Wednesday, Obama and his allies were arguing that the United States needs to remind hostile nations such as Iran and North Korea of American military might while working to reassure the nation that the lessons of the last decade were fresh in their minds.

"It is not Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya," White House chief of staff Denis McDonough said Sunday during one of his five network television interviews. "This is a very concerned, concentrated, limited effort that we can carry out and that can underscore and secure our interests."

But McDonough conceded the administration lacks "irrefutable, beyond-a-reasonable-doubt evidence" that skeptical Americans, including lawmakers who will start voting on military action this week, are seeking.

"It's an uphill slog," said Rep. Mike Rogers, the Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, who supports strikes on Assad. "I think it's very clear he's lost support in the last week," Rogers added, speaking of the president.

A survey by The Associated Press shows that House members who are staking out positions are either opposed to or leaning against Obama's plan for a military strike by more than a 6-1 margin.

"Lobbing a few Tomahawk missiles will not restore our credibility overseas," said Rep. Mike McCaul, the Texas Republican who chairs the House Homeland Security Committee.

Added Rep. Loretta Sanchez, D-Calif.: "For the president to say that this is just a very quick thing and we're out of there, that's how long wars start."

Despite public backing from leaders of both parties to strike, almost half of the 433 current members in the House and a third of the 100-member Senate remain undecided, the AP survey found. They will be the subject of intense lobbying from the administration - as well as outside groups that have formed coalitions that defy the traditional left-right divide.

Public opinion surveys show intense American skepticism about military intervention in Syria, even among those who believe Syria's government used chemical weapons on its people.

The United States, citing intelligence reports, says the lethal nerve agent sarin was used in an Aug. 21 attack outside Damascus, and that 1,429 people died, including 426 children.

Top administration officials, including Kerry, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power, planned to brief lawmakers ahead of the Wednesday vote on a resolution that would authorize the "limited and specified use" of U.S. armed forces against Syria for no more than 90 days.

The measure bars American ground troops from combat. A final vote is expected at week's end and the House is expected to take up the issue the following week.
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-trying-s...-politics.html
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.

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Old 09-09-2013, 08:10 AM   #495
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I wish Obama and family would just go on Vacations, Golf Trips, and Fund Raisers for the Rest Of His Tenure! America would be 'A lot Better Off'.
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.

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Old 09-09-2013, 08:53 AM   #496
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I wish Obama and family would just go on Vacations, Golf Trips, and Fund Raisers for the Rest Of His Tenure! America would be 'A lot Better Off'.
Didn't the last guy try that approach?

"During his eight years in office, Dubya set a record for most vacation days in a single presidency, amassing 879 over the course of two terms." FP
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What would 'busa have done?
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I would love to hear what Busa would have done
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I'd like to know how Busa would handle this situation.
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What are we to do?
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:26 AM   #497
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Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

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Old 09-09-2013, 04:42 PM   #498
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Didn't the last guy try that approach?

"During his eight years in office, Dubya set a record for most vacation days in a single presidency, amassing 879 over the course of two terms." FP
Yeah! He should have just stuck to golf

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Old 09-09-2013, 05:17 PM   #499
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Re: Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

So if the potus has to make the case to the public that we need to meddle in Syria's affairs, shouldn't that sort of be a sign that we shouldn't intervene?

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Old 09-09-2013, 06:16 PM   #500
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So if the potus has to make the case to the public that we need to meddle in Syria's affairs, shouldn't that sort of be a sign that we shouldn't intervene?

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In this situation perhaps. But overall, the public is generally completely uninformed and clueless about foreign policy. Sometimes the country needs to be informed how other nations/issues are part of our interests (economic/political/security).

Haven't you heard the phrase:
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war is god's way of teaching Americans geography
I am interested to see what Russia tries to push with the chemical weapons. I wonder if anything will come of Kerry's off script comments and Syria's response.

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