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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 12-25-2013, 10:35 PM   #3181
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I've heard pretty decent things about the Sig M400. However, it's middle of the road. I've seen the SWAT models at $1000-1200. If that's what you're finding, I'd recommend looking at a Colt LE6920 for the same price. Colt is at the top of the AR food chain for quality.

Don't get too impressed by the front rail on the Sig M400; it's a crap rail. It's simply a railed handguard replacement that is not free-floated and really doesn't add much to the gun. If you get the M400 SWAT, my first recommendation would be to ditch the rail and get a quality one by Daniel Defense, Centurion, etc.
I can't fault you for liking the aesthetics of the carry handle, but here's the reality of it: The instant you decide to run any optic on the rifle is the last time you will ever use that carry handle. There are a ton of AR owners who have multiple carry handles sitting in a box somewhere.

There are good alternatives to be had.
Case in point- Colt LE6920MP Magpul Model - $949
http://www.tombstonetactical.com/cat...in-30rd-black/
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Last edited by Reedo302; 12-25-2013 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:51 AM   #3182
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The General AR Discussion Thread

LWRC vs Noveske? Still leaning towards Noveske but would appreciate everyone's thoughts! Thanks in advance.


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Old 12-26-2013, 10:12 AM   #3183
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Originally Posted by Tom5933 View Post
LWRC vs Noveske? Still leaning towards Noveske but would appreciate everyone's thoughts! Thanks in advance.
Kind of apples vs oranges. It really all depends on what models you are looking at. Which models are you looking at? What do you want out of the rifle? What do you plan to do with the rifle?
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Last edited by Reedo302; 12-26-2013 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:47 AM   #3184
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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
I've heard pretty decent things about the Sig M400. However, it's middle of the road. I've seen the SWAT models at $1000-1200. If that's what you're finding, I'd recommend looking at a Colt LE6920 for the same price. Colt is at the top of the AR food chain for quality.

Don't get too impressed by the front rail on the Sig M400; it's a crap rail. It's simply a railed handguard replacement that is not free-floated and really doesn't add much to the gun. If you get the M400 SWAT, my first recommendation would be to ditch the rail and get a quality one by Daniel Defense, Centurion, etc.
I can't fault you for liking the aesthetics of the carry handle, but here's the reality of it: The instant you decide to run any optic on the rifle is the last time you will ever use that carry handle. There are a ton of AR owners who have multiple carry handles sitting in a box somewhere.

There are good alternatives to be had.
Case in point- Colt LE6920MP Magpul Model - $949
http://www.tombstonetactical.com/cat...in-30rd-black/
You have a good point about the colt. Im seeing the M400 around $1k so it's either or for the same price. Sig also has an ambi mag release and a special tensioner connection between the receivers to reduce the slop/rattle you get with other AR15s

As for the carry handle, i just plan to shoot irons alot before i spend $ on an optic, then of course it has to come off.

Last edited by daedalus34r; 12-29-2013 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:19 PM   #3185
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SIG M400 SWAT

Pros:
Ambi Mag Catch
Receiver mounted ambidextrous swivel cups
Limited lifetime warranty
Quad rail

Cons:
quad rail is a cheap drop-in non-FF handguard


_____________________________________________



COLT LE6920MP

Pros:
Reputation/known quality
full mil-spec construction
Magpul furniture, including handguard and VFG (inexpensive modularity)
Limited lifetime warranty

Cons:
Basic/no frills rifle


_____________________________________________



Also, looking at both the Sig website, online photos, and this YouTube video:



It looks like the M400 SWAT comes with folding sights, not the M4 carry handle.


Just something to consider, and this is true regardless of the rifle you buy:
The optimal zero for 5.56 is 50yd or 100yd, depending on your preference. The A2 drum sights are designed for one BZO, which is the 30m(36yd)/300m zero, and the M4 is designed for 25m/300m. That is the only zero that functions with those drum sight adjustments. Because of this, if you don't plan on using that BZO, there is no reason to have the M4 rear carry handle sight over another folding sight. Point being, if you want to learn on irons, it really doesn't matter what sights you have. They all work the same. I've never had a difference in accuracy or ability between the A2/M4 sights and BUIS like Magpul MBUS or Troy BattleSights.
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:05 PM   #3186
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^^ very useful information, thanks for sharing.

As for that nonFF quadrail on the sig, when you mean cheap do you mean it will rattle or fall apart? All i plan to put on a magpul AFG.

as for your BZO explanation, i don't understand part of it:
are you saying the carry handle sight is ONLY good for 30m/300m? So if i get any AR15 and have a carry handle on it, i wont be able to sight it to 25yds? (thats the best i can get near me for indoor range).

If that's the case then foldable sights it is. How are the troy battle sights? those look really robust, better than magpuls.
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:50 PM   #3187
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Non-FF rails generally rattle unless they have some form of tensioner. The only drop-in rails that I consider to be quality are the Daniel Defense EZ-CAR and SureFire M73. Most of the others I've seen have rattled, easily cant to the side, or generally don't have great build quality. For general hobby use, it's probably fine. In general, I don't recommend non-FF rails regardless of manufacturer. They have several issues with barrel deviation and heat-soak/transfer. Consider that you get a quality drop-in free float rail for $250.

I'm not saying don't get the Sig, just don't let the rail be the deciding factor. Given all the options on the market for FF rails, the non-FF railed handguards are antiquated obsolete technology. They're generally regarded as a sales ploy with very limited functionality. The Magpul MOE handguard is designed to be an inexpensive lightweight minimalist option that you can add to with proprietary polymer components that keep weight and cost down. IMO, it's a much better entry-level or minimalist option than a drop-in rail. It also resists heat much better. If you want a Sig, I would recommend looking at a standard M400, or an M400 Enhanced with the Magpul furniture. They can be found for about the same cost as the Colt.

The carry handle sight is good for any BZO. However, if you want to use the drum elevation adjustment, you can only use that one military BZO. Problem is that M4 sights use a dual-aperture sight that is not same-plane. The small aperture is designed for 300m and beyond, and the large 0-200 aperture is for just that. It's a CQB aperture that is on a slightly lower plane. Most flip-up irons are same-plane, meaning that both apertures (if there are two) are on the same sight plane. Some BUIS manufacturers like Samson and ARMS have made non-Same Plane BUIS, so you have to make sure you know what you get. The Sig M400 runs Troy BUIS, which are excellent sights. The Magpul MBUS sights are also excellent sights, and much lower cost.
Interestingly enough, the Magpul MBUS gen2 sights are just robust and durable as the metal sights like those from Troy and Diamondhead.
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:54 AM   #3188
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^^ Thanks for all the guidance.

Looks like I'll be keeping an eye on the MOE enhanced versions.

what are your opinions on the SIG M400 anti-slop receiver tensioner dealy? Snake Oil or something that does inspire more confidence in the product?

If the prices are equal it's hard to say no to Colt's legacy and reliability. If one in OD Green becomes available i'll be a happy man.
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:57 AM   #3189
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It's snake oil. I have the tensioner on several lowers and I've never used them (other to see what it actually does). The play between the upper and lower has no effect on performance or reliabiliy. All it does is make it a pain in the ass to remove the rear take down pin.
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:52 PM   #3190
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A tensioner is only necessary IF you have slop, and IF you are shooting from a precision platform at long distances. Most quality built ARs these days don't have slop rattle between the receivers. As for tensioning, it's only necessary for high precision marksmanship if you have slop. I have an 18" SPR that shoots .460 MOA with 77gr SMK handloads that mimic Mk262 Mod 1. It's got no tensioner and it a frankengun, and it shoots sub-0.5 MOA. LaRue OBR, LMT MWS and KAC SR-25 all can shoot sub-MOA all day and they don't use tensioners.
As Serbonze said, it's snake oil. Something for people who either A.) don't know any better, or B.) people who are ridiculously anal about accuracy and believe that every little .0001MOA counts.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:51 AM   #3191
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If you just can't live with any play between the upper and lower receiver, and the lower does not have the tensioner adjustment, you do still have options.

There is a product called the Accuwedge that is inserted into the lower receiver under the rear takedown pin. I would caution against putting any foreign material in your lower receiver though, as products can eventually break down and you will have bits of stuff floating around in your fire control group.



A second, and I think safer, alternative is to put one number 8 o-ring over the front take down pin lug of the upper receiver.



Please remember that all three solutions to removing play between the upper and lower receiver put additional pressure on the takedown pins and result in making it more difficult to attach and separate the two.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:52 AM   #3192
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The only AR i've fired was an m16 in Vegas so i was having fun converting my money into a stream of brass instead paying attention to any slop between the receivers. I'm sure any non-tensioner equipped AR15 is fine for me.

I just don't want to hear/feel excessive rattle when standing at the range shooting. At the moment I'm not interested in bench rest shooting, so i don't need that extreme accuracy.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:12 PM   #3193
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If you don't want to hear or feel excessive rattle, then regardless of which AR you go with you will also want to replace the stock with one that has a clamping mechanism. The least expensive option out there is the Magpul CTR.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:29 PM   #3194
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any rattle you get from the sig or colt will be minimal. It's not like the entire thing will be shaking apart in your hands. If you've ever shot a classic military M1911, it's even less rattle than that.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:35 PM   #3195
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rainier arms has noveske chainsaw lowers in stock
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:06 PM   #3196
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I did an impulse buy on a colt LE6920ca on 12/31/13. The long gun registration law made me do it.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:43 PM   #3197
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Wise move
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:39 AM   #3198
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http://www.armslist.com/posts/253437...-with-a-ps4---

another idiot on armslist

Quote:
LOWER
-Homemade 80% lower( Used a Drill Press w/t Vice) Lightweight Polymer
-Standard PSA Lower components
-BLK Magpull Pistol Grip and Trigger Guard

EXTRA !!!

NOTE: This is a fully functioning AR15! Its has been well kept.Everything on the Ar15 is mill spec. A bill of sales will be written if requested. Must have Spoken with caller on the phone. No paper-trail B/C gun is not serialized. This is a CLEAN AR15 ( meaning I am the creator (Of Lower)& owner and i have Never committed a crime with the weapon! Cash& Carry. No ID will be asked but will only sell to responsible gun owners! Ps4 is brand new and will come with a 3 MonthPlaystation Plus membership.I am selling all my valuables in order to pay my rent which is the reason the PS4 is included. Please don't waste my time and i wont waste yours. Call for Detailed info of the firearm or email.
wow
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Old 01-07-2014, 12:00 PM   #3199
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Wow is right...he may get a visit from the man
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:24 PM   #3200
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Wow is right...he may get a visit from the man
he might be the man....
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