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E46 Xi Forum
The E46 XI was produced from 01-05 in sedan and touring body styles. Powered by either a 2.5L inline 6 in the 325xi or a 3.0L inline 6 330xi. Discuss all thing about BMW AWD E46 'Xi' here.

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Old 03-09-2014, 09:35 PM   #1
albokid
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Need help on 325xi idling rough on start, and clicking noise (videos included)

I have a 2001 325xi with 167xxx miles. When I start the car it idles rough as if it's about to shut down, so I have to keep reving it until the engine warms up. If it's in the morning, this may take a while as I live in the north east. If the car is warm and just shut it off and turn it back on a couple of revs and it idles normal. During the rough idle (especially when the car is cold) there is a clicking noise coming from the engine compartment; doesn't seem related to the RPM's and seems like its coming from somewhere under the intake manifold/around the DISA valve (see video). Once the car has stabilized the car runs fine.

I know that the car needs an oil sensor a valve cover gasket and a thermostat, but I highly doubt that could be causing this issue.

I have pulled the following codes: P0300, P1349, P1344, P1353, 1343, P0056, P0128


I removed the covers and ignition coils to check for oil in the sparkplugs and there was none. (it would've been smart to remove the spark plugs and look at the color but didn't think of it).

I also replaced the DISA valve with another one from a friends car which should have been working properly. The spring on my DISA valve seemed to be working while on his the flap was lose...either one did not make a difference.

Here are the videos:



1. Rough start (after the engine has been running for a while)...it takes a lot more effort if the engine is cold





2. Here you can hear the clicking noise which goes away once the car stabilizes.


//

One thing that gets is why this goes away and the car drives fine after a few revs or after the engine warms up I really don't want to replace the CCV without knowing it's that ....I'm hoping someone has experience with such a thing and is able to point me in the right direction.

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thank you!
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:36 AM   #2
albokid
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anybody?...
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:39 AM   #3
SamDoe1
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P0300: Random/Multiple Misfire
P1349: Cylinder 4 Misfire w/Fuel Cutoff
P1344: Cylinder 2 Misfire w/Fuel Cutoff
P1353: Cylinder 6 Misfire w/Fuel Cutoff
P1343: Cylinder 1 Misfire w/Fuel Cutoff
P0056: Heater Control Circuit Bank 2 Sensor 2
P0128: Coolant Temperature Below Thermostat Regulating Temperature

You have a misfire condition which is what is giving you both the rough idle and the clicking noise.

The O2 sensor code is probably related but I don't think the sensor itself is bad...wait on this one.

Start with checking the intake runner for leaks/cracks/tears etc, clean the MAF sensor (clean the electrical connector as well), clean out the idle control valve. All of these things are free/very cheap.

Next address the thermostat code by replacing the thermostat, that could have something to do with it too since the issue goes away once the engine warms up. If you haven't changed the water pump in a while or flushed out the coolant, this is a good opportunity to do so. If you're tight on money, just flush out the coolant and change out the tstat.

Last edited by SamDoe1; 03-14-2014 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:40 AM   #4
ineedacaddy
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Check the disa
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bla bla
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:03 PM   #5
Innocennt
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Help, my car is doing this same thing. Although I'm throwing secondary air pump codes as well... That clicking noise scares the hell outta me, I don't want to let it warm up.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocennt View Post
Help, my car is doing this same thing. Although I'm throwing secondary air pump codes as well... That clicking noise scares the hell outta me, I don't want to let it warm up.
Any codes? No CEL?
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:25 PM   #7
Innocennt
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I have both secondary air pump codes showing. I found that the vaccume line to the check valve was broken. Replaced it. Still running bad. Found out the disa flap was broken. The new disa should be here Wednesday. Hopefully that helps my issue

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Old 03-17-2014, 10:01 PM   #8
SamDoe1
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SAP doesn't cause poor running if the vacuum line is ok. Clear out the codes and see what comes back.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:57 PM   #9
albokid
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Hi,


Firstly, SamDoe1 thank you for your replies. I'll take out an clean the MAF and ICV this weekend. Here is what noticed thus far:

Secondary air pump: my hose to the check valve was degraded as well. Replaced that and no change in the way the car runs. I've noticed the SAP goes on for at least a minute every time I start the car - I don't think this was the case on my other E46.

DISA - I replaced the DISA with another one from a friends car. No change. Put mine back on as the spring and flap were tight on mine - the flap on his was lose. I might need to buy a new one and try it out. I disconnected the disa plug and the car runs just the same and that clicking noise is there. Do you think I should buy a new one and replace - these things aren't excatly cheap but if it'll solve my problem I'll pay for it.

MAF - whenever I unplug and plug back in I get a transmission code (exclamation point next to the gear indicator), and the car goes in limp mode. It's usually back to normal after a couple of start cycles.

ICV - Haven't looked at yet - might be the culprit.

Questions:

If it's a vacuum leak, would it idle well after the engine is warm?
Could it be something in the fuel delivery (pump filter, injectors...)?


Thanks again!



I'll update the post with any findings.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:56 PM   #10
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Pull the DISA out and check that the flapper isn't broken and that it actually works. With a broken DISA, it depends on where the flapper is stuck as to what exact problem you will have, i.e. rough idle, stalling, poor acceleration and/or missing, as the DISA changes air flow to the Intake. A bad DISA will also throw random Mis-fire codes for all cylinders.
The SAP/Secondary Air Pump makes noise for 1 to 5 minutes every time the car is started, warm or cold, but that noise is on the right front side of the engine compartment and will not cause rough idle and the only codes it will throw are usually "low secondary air". Usually when you get the fault codes for the SAP, it isn't the pump or pump controller, its either a clogged SAP Filter/or one that is disintegrated or the vacuum hose from the SAP to the rear of the intake is cracked.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:45 PM   #11
Innocennt
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I put my new disa in and cleaned the maf. Has a better idle when I start it up but once it starts getting warmer it starts idling like crap again. And the misfire still happens even when I rev the engine. Only codes I'm throwing right now are a few misfire codes and a lean code for bank1 sensor 1. Any suggestions ?


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Old 03-19-2014, 04:48 PM   #12
SamDoe1
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^ Check the intake runner for leaks and tears, that might be the cause of it. Other issue might be the CCV to dipstick drain line.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:56 PM   #13
Innocennt
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Yea I checked the boots when I had it pulled apart. Also the line that runs to the brake booster(big vacuum line) where it connects to the other side came disconnected. Doesn't look like there's any way it really stays connected so I put a bead of super glue around it and plugged it back up


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Old 03-20-2014, 06:12 PM   #14
Blizare
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Pop off the spark plug engine cover and undo one coil at a time and find the cylinder thats not firing. Probably a coil pack needs to be replaced. As well if engine is running and you pull oil cap off, and there is A LOT of vacuum, CCV for sure.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:18 PM   #15
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Blizare, how much of a shock do you want them to get suggesting that they disconnect/reconnect 1 coil at a time with the engine running till he finds the one that makes no difference (if they have random mis-fire codes, it can be a bad coil, maybe not). A bad coil can work perfectly well until it heats up and then when warm, the voltage can break down. However, if you have a bad coil, let's say in #2 cylinder, you should be getting the fault code for #2 coil besides the random mis-fire codes.
SAP runs every time you start the car (cold or warm) for 1 to 5 minutes. If the hoses at either end are cracked and/or the plastic tube is cracked, you WILL have a vacuum leak all the time. SAP line runs from the SAP controller (hose to plastic tube) along the bottom of the valve cover with the 02 sensor wires around the back of the engine to the intake manifold where there is another short piece of hose. Hoses and tube are easily broken when changing the valve cover gasket set.
Did you clean the ICV? Its also electrical and will click and if it isn't working correctly can cause the problem(s) you are speaking of.
Super Glue to hold a hose on?!?! It didn't look like there was anything to keep it connected? Then it was broken, and since the brake vacuum booster is just that, a vacuum booster, a hose that is not sealed will be a good sized vacuum leak.Not a good idea to Super Glue or use RED or Green Loktite on anything on a car!!!
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:40 AM   #16
Blizare
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ugh, I forgot why I can't stand these forums.

If you think that you are going to shock yourself but unclipping the coil pack connector from the coil, your re(&%$^ed

And the CEL will not always come on for a bad coil although you are correct about the breakdown when HOT. But it's pretty obvious if a coil is bad when it's cold

EDIT: But he's also right on about the brake booster hose. Make sure there is no vacuum leak there and I think Crazy glue is not the way to fix it.
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Last edited by Blizare; 03-25-2014 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:35 PM   #17
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Service Engine Soon Light will almost always come on with a bad coil, why, because its mis-firing and usually not only will you get a bad coil code and mis-fire code for that cylinder, you'll often also get random mis-fire codes for the other cylinders as the computer tries to make up for the bad coil.

Even pulling the wires/wire clip off the top of the coil with the car running is a bad idea, too easy to cause an electrical surge that can take out other things and compound the issue. Much wiser to check the codes, see which coil is bad or which cylinder is mis-firing and then with engine off, swap coil around to see if the bad coil and mis-fire follows the coil.
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