E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Gun Talk

Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 06-16-2014, 09:10 PM   #141
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,828
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
The Apex kits are mandatory upgrades for any M&P. I may be switching my duty gun to an M&P9 or M&P45 in the near future. Wish I could use my personal M&P9 with Apex DCAEK and RAM, since it's such a drastic upgrade.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2014, 10:03 PM   #142
Rush4theYehO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,406
My Ride: XI fts(now)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
The Apex kits are mandatory upgrades for any M&P. I may be switching my duty gun to an M&P9 or M&P45 in the near future. Wish I could use my personal M&P9 with Apex DCAEK and RAM, since it's such a drastic upgrade.
Factory guns are required to be 100% stock, correct? How about if it's a factory part, just from a different gun. For example - lighter connector in glocks?
Rush4theYehO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2014, 10:32 PM   #143
FutureFuzz 26
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bardstown, Ky
Posts: 52
My Ride: 2000 imola red 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
The Apex kits are mandatory upgrades for any M&P. I may be switching my duty gun to an M&P9 or M&P45 in the near future. Wish I could use my personal M&P9 with Apex DCAEK and RAM, since it's such a drastic upgrade.
I would assume you may know, did they ever resolve the issue with the .45 magizines jamming?
My father retired his Ruger P90 .45 for higher cap M&P.45 for his duty weapon. To only send off all 3 mags for repair, they where consistantly jamming. The follower would get hung and all spring pressure would be lost rendering the last 4 or so rounds uselessly flopping around in the mag

P.S the gun was purchased new in oct 2010

Last edited by FutureFuzz 26; 06-16-2014 at 10:33 PM.
FutureFuzz 26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 12:05 AM   #144
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,828
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush4theYehO View Post
Factory guns are required to be 100% stock, correct? How about if it's a factory part, just from a different gun. For example - lighter connector in glocks?
It really depends. There are minimal upgrades allowed. My current Gen3 G22 became predictably unreliable when I attached the SureFire DG switch for my X300 Ultra. I had to get agency approval to install Wolff extra power magazine springs for reliability, and it was approved. I am now currently still having the problem to a much lesser degree, but I am toying with getting a heavier Wolff recoil spring assembly to solve the issue once and for all until I get my new gun.
We have a load of Gen4s that just came in and all have been reliable for the most part.

The issue is that I may not be with my current agency much longer.
I may be changing departments to one that is ~20x the size of my current agency. They currently authorize the M&P9 and M&P45 for use. They have had a lot of reliability issues. The department has had a lot of issues with firearms selection and authorization because the out-going rangemaster was basically a retired-on-duty why-change-and-create-work-for-myself thats-the-way-we've-always-done-it kind of guy. Fortunately they just got a new rangemaster who actually knows his shit and is going to solve the problem. He is very well known in the tactical community and they are already looking at eliminating the M&P line. They banned the M&P15 officer-owned rifles a couple years ago after the Mossberg barrel issue.
Current officers who have been around for more than 2 years are grandfathered in and carry numerous models of guns within an authorized list. Most guns carried are Sig and HK. Some are carrying M&Ps. The newest officers are mandated to have the M&P9 or 45 only. The M&P is the first striker-fired gun that they have approved. The talk is that they're going to re-authorize the Sig line, and possibly also the HK. Officers have to buy their own guns, so it is going to be more open.
With the advent of the HK VP9 and Sig P320, they are now opening up consideration to other striker-fired guns. If this happens, word is that they'll also open up to the Glock 17 and 21. Not sure which way I'd go if that happened. For the M&P option, I'd get the 9mm without hesitation.

But to answer your question, they are very restrictive about modifications beyond stock or factory custom shop (within reason). Not sure what they'd allow, but I do know that several guys have stippled the grips of their M&Ps. I'd like to at least do a grip reduction treatment by ATEi or Robar, but that's something I haven't gotten confirmation on yet.


If I stay with my current agency, I will get issued the new Gen4 G22 and get to buy my Gen3. I'll send the Gen3 to Robar or ATEi and get the grip reduction and add an RMR to the slide and install a heavier recoil spring. Then I'll try to get it authorized for duty use on a long term "T&E" basis.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureFuzz 26 View Post
I would assume you may know, did they ever resolve the issue with the .45 magizines jamming?
My father retired his Ruger P90 .45 for higher cap M&P.45 for his duty weapon. To only send off all 3 mags for repair, they where consistantly jamming. The follower would get hung and all spring pressure would be lost rendering the last 4 or so rounds uselessly flopping around in the mag

P.S the gun was purchased new in oct 2010
I am not really sure what went on with that. I know that the M&P pistol line has been problematic with corrosion issues in all models. There have been additional feeding issues noted, light striker hits, and other little gremlins. I'm not sure what has happened with the M&P45. I've honestly paid very little attention to them over the years because most of my time gets spent in the Glock arena.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel

Last edited by Reedo302; 06-17-2014 at 12:06 AM.
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 09:28 PM   #145
ryanwhite74115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,783
My Ride: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
It really depends. There are minimal upgrades allowed. My current Gen3 G22 became predictably unreliable when I attached the SureFire DG switch for my X300 Ultra. I had to get agency approval to install Wolff extra power magazine springs for reliability, and it was approved. I am now currently still having the problem to a much lesser degree, but I am toying with getting a heavier Wolff recoil spring assembly to solve the issue once and for all until I get my new gun.
We have a load of Gen4s that just came in and all have been reliable for the most part.

The issue is that I may not be with my current agency much longer.
I may be changing departments to one that is ~20x the size of my current agency. They currently authorize the M&P9 and M&P45 for use. They have had a lot of reliability issues. The department has had a lot of issues with firearms selection and authorization because the out-going rangemaster was basically a retired-on-duty why-change-and-create-work-for-myself thats-the-way-we've-always-done-it kind of guy. Fortunately they just got a new rangemaster who actually knows his shit and is going to solve the problem. He is very well known in the tactical community and they are already looking at eliminating the M&P line. They banned the M&P15 officer-owned rifles a couple years ago after the Mossberg barrel issue.
Current officers who have been around for more than 2 years are grandfathered in and carry numerous models of guns within an authorized list. Most guns carried are Sig and HK. Some are carrying M&Ps. The newest officers are mandated to have the M&P9 or 45 only. The M&P is the first striker-fired gun that they have approved. The talk is that they're going to re-authorize the Sig line, and possibly also the HK. Officers have to buy their own guns, so it is going to be more open.
With the advent of the HK VP9 and Sig P320, they are now opening up consideration to other striker-fired guns. If this happens, word is that they'll also open up to the Glock 17 and 21. Not sure which way I'd go if that happened. For the M&P option, I'd get the 9mm without hesitation.

But to answer your question, they are very restrictive about modifications beyond stock or factory custom shop (within reason). Not sure what they'd allow, but I do know that several guys have stippled the grips of their M&Ps. I'd like to at least do a grip reduction treatment by ATEi or Robar, but that's something I haven't gotten confirmation on yet.


If I stay with my current agency, I will get issued the new Gen4 G22 and get to buy my Gen3. I'll send the Gen3 to Robar or ATEi and get the grip reduction and add an RMR to the slide and install a heavier recoil spring. Then I'll try to get it authorized for duty use on a long term "T&E" basis.



I am not really sure what went on with that. I know that the M&P pistol line has been problematic with corrosion issues in all models. There have been additional feeding issues noted, light striker hits, and other little gremlins. I'm not sure what has happened with the M&P45. I've honestly paid very little attention to them over the years because most of my time gets spent in the Glock arena.
Based on these comments it sounds like the M&P series is having a lot of issues (what are the issues?). I was seriously debating between the Shied (with Apex kit) or Sig P938 but if ya'll are having a bunch of problems I'll just stick to Sig. What say ye?
__________________
(\ /) or \(`' )/
( . .)
c('')('')
ryanwhite74115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 10:18 PM   #146
CRZY BMW
Registered User
 
CRZY BMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Socal
Posts: 441
My Ride: has wings & a prop
I love my shield and with the apex trigger it's even better. Honestly I always pick the gun I shoot better with... I went to buy a glock but shot better with the XD so I went that route. My buddy is the complete opposite. Really depends on the person.
__________________


http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=309167&stc=1&d=1238667257


Last edited by CRZY BMW; 12-13-2014 at 02:37 AM.
CRZY BMW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2014, 01:07 AM   #147
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,828
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
I really couldn't say what exactly the specific complaints are that this agency is experiencing. I haven't been able to get definitive descriptions other than "reliability issues". Over the past 6 months or so, I've been hearing increasing reports of poor quality control on S&W's part. I suspect that may have something to do with it. Lord knows I've fallen victim to poor QC by S&W. My M&P9 has a damaged barrel that I have yet to get replaced. It came like that from the factory.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 10:47 PM   #148
M3Inline6
Ain't buying any more cars!
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a squat rack!
Posts: 1,834
My Ride: A sexy ass ///M4!
M&P9 Shield

I'm bumping this thread. I think I'm going to pick up an M&P Shield or full size in a couple of weeks.


Reedo...


...I've been asking around as well, and one of our local agencies moved to the M&P a few years ago (...away from the Beretta). The guys seem to like it, but my sample circle is small. Do you have any updates before I opt for one of these? Right now my department issued firearm is an S&W .40, and I don't particularly care for it, but the M&P is a different animal. I love my XD40 though.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 12-12-2014 at 10:52 PM.
M3Inline6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 10:59 PM   #149
M3Inline6
Ain't buying any more cars!
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a squat rack!
Posts: 1,834
My Ride: A sexy ass ///M4!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
Check out the Crossbreed MiniTuck if you want IWB. If you want to do AIWB, take a look at the Raven Concealment Vanguard-II.

Thanks for the suggestion.
M3Inline6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2014, 02:17 AM   #150
CRZY BMW
Registered User
 
CRZY BMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Socal
Posts: 441
My Ride: has wings & a prop
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Inline6 View Post
Thanks for the suggestion.
While I hear great things about the crossbreed and ravens, and from my limited experience with them, I personally recommend PJ holsters. Each one is custom made to your order. I am a minimalist so the least intrusive the better. I can't stand having junk in my pockets. Only downside is the order wait time of 4-5 weeks.

If I remember correctly you're chp; if you're local in Orange County and want to meet up to see the holsters in person, pm me. They're really the best option I've come across for concealed carry. I've got a couple in different configurations. Great for appendix, side or behind the back. Can be made to any thickness and cant.

They're only about $50-$60. http://pjholster.com








My edc items:



Not a fan of the padded holsters so I rarely use it...

__________________


http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=309167&stc=1&d=1238667257


Last edited by CRZY BMW; 12-13-2014 at 02:56 AM.
CRZY BMW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 03:11 PM   #151
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,828
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Inline6 View Post


...I've been asking around as well, and one of our local agencies moved to the M&P a few years ago (...away from the Beretta). The guys seem to like it, but my sample circle is small. Do you have any updates before I opt for one of these? Right now my department issued firearm is an S&W .40, and I don't particularly care for it, but the M&P is a different animal. I love my XD40 though.
My class had 13 guys, all but one using the M&P9. One guy had the M&P45. 3 guns had factory installed front night sights rattle loose and shift or fall out. 1 gun wouldn't fire reliably when you pulled the trigger. They had to replace several internal parts. One or two others had unknown problems. In total, there were issues with 6 or 7 out of the 13 guns. The 3 front sight issues were cosmetic and resolved by the officers having to buy new front sights out of their own pocket.

Obviously my issue with customer service was ridiculous, and it was not uncommon. We had several guys who had to buy their guns online, and one guy went to Cabela's and bought a commercial gun and extra mags. Estimated wait times for "blue label" guns from S&W were in the 3-6 month range. This is a bit outrageous when you consider that they have commercial models shipping constantly.

Another class of 12 CSOs being promoted to officers was going through the academy at the same time, and there were apparently a lot of issues with their guns too. I don't have any details besides one or two of them not having a gun for the entire academy because they ordered blue label models and the wait was taking too long. Their academy was 17 weeks long, which illustrates the ridiculousness of it all.

I'm not impressed with S&W at all.

We are likely switching to the Sig P320 within the next year, but there are a couple guys doing a T&E on the HK VP9 for that time period for an alternate gun. HK has terrible CS, but so does S&W. Sig has really good CS.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 03:39 PM   #152
M3Inline6
Ain't buying any more cars!
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a squat rack!
Posts: 1,834
My Ride: A sexy ass ///M4!
M&P9 Shield

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
My class had 13 guys, all but one using the M&P9. One guy had the M&P45. 3 guns had factory installed front night sights rattle loose and shift or fall out. 1 gun wouldn't fire reliably when you pulled the trigger. They had to replace several internal parts. One or two others had unknown problems. In total, there were issues with 6 or 7 out of the 13 guns. The 3 front sight issues were cosmetic and resolved by the officers having to buy new front sights out of their own pocket.



Obviously my issue with customer service was ridiculous, and it was not uncommon. We had several guys who had to buy their guns online, and one guy went to Cabela's and bought a commercial gun and extra mags. Estimated wait times for "blue label" guns from S&W were in the 3-6 month range. This is a bit outrageous when you consider that they have commercial models shipping constantly.



Another class of 12 CSOs being promoted to officers was going through the academy at the same time, and there were apparently a lot of issues with their guns too. I don't have any details besides one or two of them not having a gun for the entire academy because they ordered blue label models and the wait was taking too long. Their academy was 17 weeks long, which illustrates the ridiculousness of it all.



I'm not impressed with S&W at all.



We are likely switching to the Sig P320 within the next year, but there are a couple guys doing a T&E on the HK VP9 for that time period for an alternate gun. HK has terrible CS, but so does S&W. Sig has really good CS.

Thanks Sir. I appreciate the insight. That's enough of a reason for me to bide my time a bit. I'm in no rush. Maybe I'll check out the SIG's.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 12-14-2014 at 03:40 PM.
M3Inline6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2014, 01:28 AM   #153
Rush4theYehO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,406
My Ride: XI fts(now)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
My class had 13 guys, all but one using the M&P9. One guy had the M&P45. 3 guns had factory installed front night sights rattle loose and shift or fall out. 1 gun wouldn't fire reliably when you pulled the trigger. They had to replace several internal parts. One or two others had unknown problems. In total, there were issues with 6 or 7 out of the 13 guns. The 3 front sight issues were cosmetic and resolved by the officers having to buy new front sights out of their own pocket.

Obviously my issue with customer service was ridiculous, and it was not uncommon. We had several guys who had to buy their guns online, and one guy went to Cabela's and bought a commercial gun and extra mags. Estimated wait times for "blue label" guns from S&W were in the 3-6 month range. This is a bit outrageous when you consider that they have commercial models shipping constantly.

Another class of 12 CSOs being promoted to officers was going through the academy at the same time, and there were apparently a lot of issues with their guns too. I don't have any details besides one or two of them not having a gun for the entire academy because they ordered blue label models and the wait was taking too long. Their academy was 17 weeks long, which illustrates the ridiculousness of it all.

I'm not impressed with S&W at all.

We are likely switching to the Sig P320 within the next year, but there are a couple guys doing a T&E on the HK VP9 for that time period for an alternate gun. HK has terrible CS, but so does S&W. Sig has really good CS.
This happened to me too. S&W came on the line after 20 minutes of holding, and mailed me a new front sight.

Sorry to hear your M&P's aren't working out at all. I'm all of a sudden questioning my decision to swap out my glocks with the M&P lineup.
Rush4theYehO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2014, 03:58 AM   #154
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,828
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
My M&P9 has actually been pretty much flawless in operation, though I have had some minor corrosion indications with exposure to damp environments.
I think that the M&P quality is hit-and-miss, and it's probably related to whether you get a "Monday Gun" or a "Friday Gun". What appalls me the most is S&W's support. My interest lies purely with the LE side of the fence, so how they handle their commercial side is beyond my scope of give-a-shitness. In the past, S&W was well-known for their support for LE guns, and they would regularly go out of their way to accommodate and service LEOs and agencies. Fast forward to modern S&W, and it's like they don't even give a flying ****. I called multiple times and didn't get anywhere. We ultimately had to go though our regional LE rep at the agency level to get my gun back. I work for the biggest agency in the state now, so we have some weight behind our demands. I could only imagine how much more frustrating it would be a for a small department who didn't have our clout to get the process working. Not only that, but 9 weeks to swap out a barrel is outrageous. S&W obviously doesn't prioritize LE work orders or purchase orders like they used it. If they did, it wouldn't take 3-6 months to get a blue label gun while it only takes a week or two to get a commercial model. Companies that have done this in the past have lost a lot of support and respect, which is why very few agencies carry Kimbers. Kimber doesn't prioritize LE orders. Springfield has strong customer support and prioritizes every LE order, which is why they are the leading producer of 1911s for LE use. If Springfield made a double-action striker-fired pistol, they could take a massive chunk out of the LE duty gun market.

Basically, from an LE perspective I'm just fed up with S&W. From a commercial perspective, I don't think anyone is going to have any problems that are substantial enough to cause concern.

While I have a strong disdain for .40S&W Glocks due to reliability issues, the other models are all known to be highly reliable. My G34 has certainly been 100% reliable. So far, my agency has around 5k-7k rounds downrange over the past 5 months on the Sig P320 and it's been boringly reliable. I suspect that the tests with the HK VP9 will be very positive as well because, even though HK has **** customer service, they don't build **** guns so you rarely need their customer service.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel

Last edited by Reedo302; 12-17-2014 at 04:00 AM.
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2014, 11:50 PM   #155
BruceWonder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 2,222
My Ride: 2011.5 E92 M3
i just bought my shield and noticed my guide rod is a little bent, emailed SW CS and received a new guide rod assembly in the mail within a week. Great CS imo. I do admit the quality is not on par with a Sig but it is 1/2 the price
__________________
BruceWonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:02 PM   #156
Devious21
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,093
My Ride: is topless
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
While I have a strong disdain for .40S&W Glocks due to reliability issues, the other models are all known to be highly reliable. My G34 has certainly been 100% reliable. So far, my agency has around 5k-7k rounds downrange over the past 5 months on the Sig P320 and it's been boringly reliable. I suspect that the tests with the HK VP9 will be very positive as well because, even though HK has shit customer service, they don't build shit guns so you rarely need their customer service.
What issues were you seeing with the .40 caliber Glocks? Which generations?
__________________


Devious21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:49 PM   #157
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,629
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
My M&P9 has actually been pretty much flawless in operation, though I have had some minor corrosion indications with exposure to damp environments.
I think that the M&P quality is hit-and-miss, and it's probably related to whether you get a "Monday Gun" or a "Friday Gun".
See, this is why I support slave labor. There's no such thing as a "Friday Gun" when Friday is just another day under the lash.

__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:08 PM   #158
Rush4theYehO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,406
My Ride: XI fts(now)
I almost impulse-purchased a Sig p320c today. Thankfully my license still showed my old address. Let's me reconsider the decision, but I'm still thinking of doing it.

Trigger pull is heavier than the competition, but breaks clean and has a great reset. The Carry size is G19, I hope it shoots well!
Rush4theYehO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:28 PM   #159
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,828
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
What issues were you seeing with the .40 caliber Glocks? Which generations?
It's primarily with the Gen3 G22, though the G23 can be prone to it as well.
The issue lies with the design of the gun. The polymer frame of the Glock was designed for the 9mm recoil. The frame actually flexes and resonates under recoil, which is a design feature that creates friction against the slide and slows the slide down. When you attach a weapon mounted light (WML) to the gun, you can disrupt the harmonics of the frame and cause it to be stiffer. When the frame is stiffer, it allows the slide to travel faster. For the 9mm, this is not a problem. The problem is that Glock puts the same 17lb recoil spring in the G22 as it does the G17, and the .40S&W has higher recoil. As a result, the G22 slide cycles much faster, and it can outrun the magazine causing failures to feed.

The way to resolve it is a two-stage approach. The first is to install upgraded magazine springs which increase the speed that they feed up the top bullet. The second step is to replace the recoil spring with a heavier one in the 19-20lb range depending on how much a problem it is. This pretty much resolves the issue.

Not all pistols have this issue, but many do. It is made a lot worse by heavier lights, and by using grip switches like the SureFire DG switch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush4theYehO View Post
I almost impulse-purchased a Sig p320c today. Thankfully my license still showed my old address. Let's me reconsider the decision, but I'm still thinking of doing it.

Trigger pull is heavier than the competition, but breaks clean and has a great reset. The Carry size is G19, I hope it shoots well!
I really like the trigger pull on the P320. It's very crisp, not sloppy at all, noticeable reset, and the trigger travel distance is very short for reset. I tried the gun with the medium grip and it was still too big, so I'm calling Sig on Monday to see how long it's going to take to get a full size Small grip module, which I can't seem to find ANYWHERE online. Everyone has the medium, and all sizes in the compact and sub-compact realm, but nothing in the full-size.

In contrast, I got my hands on an HK VP9 also, and I was less than impressed. The trigger pull was decent, but the trigger is situated in the middle of the trigger guard and comes to a rest with a lot of space behind the trigger. The reset is a bit longer than I care for. If HK would have moved the trigger further back in the trigger guard, it would fit my hand better and feel better.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:52 PM   #160
Devious21
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,093
My Ride: is topless
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
It's primarily with the Gen3 G22, though the G23 can be prone to it as well.
The issue lies with the design of the gun. The polymer frame of the Glock was designed for the 9mm recoil. The frame actually flexes and resonates under recoil, which is a design feature that creates friction against the slide and slows the slide down. When you attach a weapon mounted light (WML) to the gun, you can disrupt the harmonics of the frame and cause it to be stiffer. When the frame is stiffer, it allows the slide to travel faster. For the 9mm, this is not a problem. The problem is that Glock puts the same 17lb recoil spring in the G22 as it does the G17, and the .40S&W has higher recoil. As a result, the G22 slide cycles much faster, and it can outrun the magazine causing failures to feed.
Ah yes. The weapon light issues I did know about. That was part of what gen4 was trying to address, if I'm not mistaken.

I remember the big debacle was that Gen3's would sometimes fail with weapon lights. So they released Gen4's with the new recoil spring, but then they were failing WITHOUT weapon lights. Then they figured it out and all was well.
__________________


Devious21 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use