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Old 07-29-2017, 09:15 AM   #1
subtlex
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Sound like a fuel pump?

Hi Guys!

Before I take it into the dealership and or just do the PM let me know if you agree with me. I plan on heading to the store later to get a cheap OBD reader, but before then here are my symptoms..

SES Light
Car is periodically dying out when I come to a stop. As the RPMS get to 500 sometimes it will catch and idle ok and sometimes it will just keep going down and stall out. Tends to happen when I give the car less gas or stop more frequently. ALWAYS happens when I am going down a large hill and I don't seem to use the gas peddle for a while. Acceleration sometimes feel's "Skippy". When I start my engine it will start everytime, but almost always takes more cranks and sounds like it barely gets going sometimes worse than others.

Im at 145k on my 02 325XI and the fuel pump has not been replaced. I plan on doing it regardless now because after reading forums I see its a must after 100k anyways for PM.

Sound like thats my issue? THANKS GUYS !
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:26 AM   #2
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It does not sound like a fuel pump problem. Fuel starvation symptoms happen when you have high fuel demand (like climbing a hill). Your problems seem to be happening in high vacuum situations. I would first pull off the air tubes from the airbox to the intake manifold, and check them for cracks. Clean the throttle body and idle air control, and perhaps the MAF, while it is apart. Check the DISA O-ring for vacuum leaks as well. Also, try to get a look at (or feel) the hose that runs from the crankcase ventilation valve down to the dipstick tube. A piece of power steering hose from the auto parts store is the cheapest and sturdiest replacement for that hose.

Last edited by Manolito; 07-29-2017 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:34 AM   #3
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Get an OBD code reader. Do not worry about what could be wrong until looking at the data given by the car.

Does not sound like a typical fuel pump scenario. Post back with the DTC codes and freeze frame data.


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Old 07-29-2017, 10:03 AM   #4
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OP, I have 2 suggestions for you. First, find a reputable independent (indie) shop that services BMWs. Try www.bimrs.org. Also, ask members of the local chapter of the BMW Car Club of America for recommendations. Every chapter has a website. Google "BMWCCA #####" where "#####" is your zip code. Second, get OBDFusion for your smartphone or tablet. It comes in both iOS and android flavors. iOS uses a wifi adapter while android uses a Bluetooth adapter. The adapter plugs into the obd2 port under the dash. Search this forum for threads about OBDFusion in which jfoj has commented. He's the guru.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:25 AM   #5
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DO NOT buy an OBDII tool locally, they are all too expensive and usually crap. The Orange ones at the auto parts stores you should stay far away from.

Most auto parts stores will loan you an OBDII tool. You want to read what codes the engine currently has. Do not worry about clearing the codes now.

Purchase the OBDFusion App and get the proper VeePeak interface from Amazon for your phone/tablet platform. Android requires Bluetooth, iProducts requires Wifi. If you want a simpler iProduct interface, it will cost you, but get the Carista LE Bluetooth interface. Some people hate fiddling with the Wifi interface on iProducts.

My guess is you will have some of the following codes:

Misfires
Misfire with Fuel Cut Off
P0171/P0174
P1188/P1189
P0491/P0492

Anyway, to get directly to your question, this current problem is not primarily related to a soft failing fuel pump. I would focus on intake and crankcase air leaks first.

Do not waste your time or money cleaning the MAF, ICV or Throttle Body. With the mileage you have the ICV might be the only thing to consider cleaning, but only if you are that deep into the engine.

Your car needs the CCV and hoses, DISA O-ring at a minimum and the Intake Boots replaced. It may also need a power brake booster as well.

You should read these threads:

Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Power Brake Booster failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1057387
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 07-29-2017 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:23 PM   #6
Alex323Ci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subtlex View Post
Im at 145k on my 02 325XI and the fuel pump has not been replaced. I plan on doing it regardless now because after reading forums I see its a must after 100k anyways for PM.
First off it does Not sound like your fuel pump. Second, 100K is not the number, associated with E46 pumps. But at 145K you should have it on a list of things to do in the future along with filter if it's never been done before.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:14 PM   #7
subtlex
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Im working on finding a reputable place to bring my car now at the moment for this issue. I know I've done the CCV + hoses when I replaced the oil filter housing gasket with a friend prob around 40k miles ago. I suppose it could be gone again. Also did the upper and lower intake which ill go inspect now. Ill check out your threads to see if I can manage doing that Disa o-ring myself as well. Thx much
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:34 PM   #8
jfoj
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The power brake booster may be leaking or some other vacuum leak could be causing the low and unstable idle. I had to replace the first power brake booster in my friends 2001 325xiT (original owner) about 3 years ago. Not 100% sure, but the XI might be a bit harder on the brake booster due to extra under hood head due to the transfer case??

You also mentioned the problem was more often when going down hill, this may be due to you using the brakes and if the brake booster is leaking this could be part of the problem.

Fuel pump is in the window that I would consider replacing it. It is a VERY easy DIY and it either helps or does not help the specific problem. As you mentioned you wanted to PM it anyway and you did state the problem may happen more often when the fuel level is low.

Often the fuel pumps soft fail and if they do around 1/4 tank the car can die due to fuel starvation.

Here is a good example of someone that had very close ties to 4 E46 that all had fuel pump failures between 70-140k miles - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-3...p-failure.html

But anyway, the thread has some good pictures and ideas as well for a DIY.

Fuel filter and fuel pump relay should be on the short list as well.

Get codes and if needed perform a smoke test. One caution is the power brake booster is hard to smoke test due to the input check valve that blocks smoke from entering the booster and there are valves and other things inside the booster that may make it hard to pass smoke and if smoke makes it though the booster you have to remove the drivers side hush panel and get up under the dash with a good light to look for smoke. If you have good ears, you can hear a leaking brake booster and/or remove the input check valve and have someone block it off with their thumb and see if the idle stabilizes and increases and/or the Fuel Trims correct themselves.

Last item on the list could be a ICV that needs to be cleaned, but usually if they are a big problem, they can trigger codes and really cause other problems. I clean them when I have easy access to them, but rarely have found many that were really in bad shape.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 07-29-2017 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:41 PM   #9
subtlex
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Thanks a bunch. Ya i watched a fuel pump DIY and a DISA valve rebuild kit DIY. I'm going to do both of those anyways, seem easy enough for a novice....when I had my plugs done recently for misfire they also said there was a vacuum leak that I didnt need to worry about..said it was probably a hose or something and told me to leave it alone for now lol.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subtlex View Post
Thanks a bunch. Ya i watched a fuel pump DIY and a DISA valve rebuild kit DIY. I'm going to do both of those anyways, seem easy enough for a novice....when I had my plugs done recently for misfire they also said there was a vacuum leak that I didnt need to worry about..said it was probably a hose or something and told me to leave it alone for now lol.
You do not want to spend much money with someone that states this kind of thing. Vacuum leaks NEED to be resolved and quickly. Running an engine too long with a vacuum leak can cause a cylinder to run Lean and end up burning exhaust valves!! An the obvious of misfires, rough idle and possible stalling are the easy things to live with compared to burned valves!
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:41 PM   #11
subtlex
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I am having the camshaft position sensor(to fix issue im told)being replaced as we speak and some other TLC items & emission code thing such as 02 sensor, but hopefully all is good when I pick up the car! Thanks again guys.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=358494

seems to really nail my symptoms as well. so i guess I feel good about it

Last edited by subtlex; 08-08-2017 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:55 PM   #12
Alex323Ci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subtlex View Post
I am having the camshaft position sensor(to fix issue im told)being replaced as we speak and some other TLC items & emission code thing such as 02 sensor, but hopefully all is good when I pick up the car! Thanks again guys.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=358494
seems to really nail my symptoms as well. so i guess I feel good about it
so your shop agrees it wasn't the fuel pump but somethng else?
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CF CSL LIP - NAV- BMWP CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC S/S LINES, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF

Last edited by Alex323Ci; 08-08-2017 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:56 PM   #13
subtlex
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Originally Posted by Alex323Ci View Post
so your shop said it wasn't the fuel pump but somethng else?
correct sir
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:41 PM   #14
Geo31
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OK, look....

Alex and j, I totally respect you both.

OP, if you haven't taken j's advice and gotten an ELM327 and OBD Fusion, you're nuts. Sorry for being so blunt. That combination has saved me 5-10x what I paid for it. Not to mention, if you have codes, and follow j's advice, he'll give you further advice worth some serious $$$.

Sounds like you are trusting your shop. That's fine, but for way less than $50, you could be well informed before going to your shop.

Have you bought an ELM327 and OBD Fusion? If not, please trust me and do so now.

Whether it's the FP or some other thing, I guess we'll eat popcorn and find out at this point. But you could have been better educated before going to the shop. That's all I'm saying.

Let us know how you make out. FAR too many threads asking for help end up with no follow up and that makes the thread worthless to those who follow behind you.

[edit] Chose my words a little better - no offense was meant.
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Last edited by Geo31; 08-09-2017 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:31 AM   #15
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A large amount of unmetered air in the system could cause those symptoms. I would check the intake boot, it is a 2 piece deal, upper and lower. Run your hands around the accordion pleats in the boots at your mileage there may be a massive tear.


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Old 08-09-2017, 02:17 PM   #16
subtlex
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Originally Posted by Geo31 View Post
OK, look....

Alex and j, I totally respect you both.

OP, if you haven't taken j's advice and gotten an ELM327 and OBD Fusion, you're nuts. Sorry for being so blunt. That combination has saved me 5-10x what I paid for it. Not to mention, if you have codes, and follow j's advice, he'll give you further advice worth some serious $$$.

Sounds like you are trusting your shop. That's fine, but for way less than $50, you could be well informed before going to your shop.

Have you bought an ELM327 and OBD Fusion? If not, please trust me and do so now.

Whether it's the FP or some other thing, I guess we'll eat popcorn and find out at this point. But you could have been better educated before going to the shop. That's all I'm saying.

Let us know how you make out. FAR too many threads asking for help end up with no follow up and that makes the thread worthless to those who follow behind you.

[edit] Chose my words a little better - no offense was meant.
Everything runs great now and no SES light in 100 miles. I had secondary air pump replaced as well as 02 sensor and the camshaft position sensor. I did order the ELM 327 and OBD Fusion because I do want to start DIYing for the first time now that I have more time on my hands.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:23 PM   #17
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The only reason to go to the dealer is for recalls, or warranty work.

Coming here asking that is like showing up to your klan meeting without your cape.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:25 PM   #18
subtlex
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Originally Posted by GhostFlame View Post
The only reason to go to the dealer is for recalls, or warranty work.

Coming here asking that is like showing up to your klan meeting without your cape.
Luckily, I didn't go to the dealer.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:57 PM   #19
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Luckily, I didn't go to the dealer.
Oh good, so you made it in time for the meeting then.
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