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Motorsports & Track Forum
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports – this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast

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Old 11-28-2004, 03:22 PM   #1
GODZPEED
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PSS9 vs TC Kline vs Ground Control/Koni

I have a '01 325i and just finished my first year in autocross/track scene. Now I am looking into coilover suspension set ups. I am looking for the most agressive, stiffest adjustable suspension available for my 325i. It will be primarily a track car, so I am not concerned with everyday ride characteristics. After watching a fellow driver with an E30, grant it he has invested a lot into his BMW, driving through corners with a front tire off the ground, and hearing spring rates of 800, 900, 1000, I am in need of a little more knowledge and advice! So with that said, which of these suspensions mentioned above, will have the stiffest spring rates, widest range of adjustment, best chance at shaving time of my runs/laps? Some added info: the car currently has a DINAN CAI with software, and will be running on 17x8/9 SSR comps with R compounds. Thanks ahead of time to all your responses/help/support. GODSPEED
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Old 11-28-2004, 03:46 PM   #2
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i would also like to here opinions. i was told the pss9's are not the best for tracking and are better suited as more of a street coilover. ? can anyone else give an opinion on this
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Old 11-28-2004, 08:34 PM   #3
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Choosing a coilover system is very subjective.

Frankly, I believe you will find the best setup for your driving style/skills by going through different kits, spring/damping rates. Meaning of course to buy and track and sell those you don't feel right with. Then again, how many of us have the luxury of time to work in a garage and a bag load of track rental opportunities to test out every possible configuration?

Nothing off the shelves will suit one's style, unless one ADAPTS the driving style/skills TO the kit, which I believe most of us do anyway.

This means you can get the stiffest setup, and the car might handle worse than before. That might really dampen your expectations, thinking stiffer with current driving skills implies better handling and better lap time. Hrm, one wheel off means springs way too stiff, thus losing traction and losing time. I had an experience when I set the PSS9s way too stiff and through a long left hander sweep, rear of my car was bouncing outward laterally! The whole suspension dynamics also depend on your alignment (camber, toe etc) setup, corner weighting.

I had the Alpina suspension setup for a while. Track for a couple of events, then decided I can do better. So I went with the PSS9 setup. I had 3 autoX and 6 track events under my belt. Many have loathed the PSS9 kit for being *too* whimpy for track events. But seriously, how many of us are veteran race car drivers to criticize the PSS9? I make the best of what I had and to-date, with about 13 track events under my belt, I have never been happier with the PSS9 setup. I have learned how to drive better with PSS9 on all four corners and observing the differences with all the damping settings. Height is adjustable but no one really adjust height in between sessions. But yes, PSS9 is for streets and the weekend track junkie.

To each his/her own, my approach to suspension mod is to move up a stage at a time. It's always easy to learn about suspension dynamics with less adjustabilities first, then move on as needed. After I have outgrown the PSS9, I will look into a setup with indpendent compression and rebound adjustability.

I think I wrote too much...
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Old 11-28-2004, 09:02 PM   #4
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If you want the best setup for the track and autox... go with TC Kline!!


... ask me how I know.
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Old 11-29-2004, 01:53 PM   #5
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ok, u asked for it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyZHP
If you want the best setup for the track and autox... go with TC Kline!!


... ask me how I know.

Ok, you asked for it: how do you know? (fill us in on the details, please)
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Old 11-29-2004, 04:31 PM   #6
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I will give another choice to consider. Try the KW suspension V3 so it will be manageble on the street or try their 3-way race suspension. Check them out at

http://www.kwsuspensions.com/3way.htm

They provide the suspension for all the entries in the european touring car championship series.

http://www.fiatouringcars.com/2k4/index.htm
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Old 11-29-2004, 08:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GODZPEED
Ok, you asked for it: how do you know? (fill us in on the details, please)
Since I've installed TC Kline's double adjustable Konis, coilovers and camber plates I've been undefeated regionally... it's gotta be the suspension, right?
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Old 11-29-2004, 09:06 PM   #8
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sweet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyZHP
Since I've installed TC Kline's double adjustable Konis, coilovers and camber plates I've been undefeated regionally... it's gotta be the suspension, right?

if you don't mind me asking:

are you running the Pro Race Coilover System or the Smart Design D/A Coilover System? what settings are you running? how low did you drop your BMW? sways bars? yes or no? thanks for your input.

I have heard of people literally shaving 5 seconds off their runs with the TCK setup. yet, some have strongly pointed at the GC setup. I agree with the PSS9 being more street than track oriented. TCK is looking better and better

Last edited by GODZPEED; 11-29-2004 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 11-29-2004, 09:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GODZPEED
if you don't mind me asking:

what settings are you running? how low did you drop your BMW? sways bars? yes or no? thanks for your input. I have heard of people literally shaving 5 seconds off their runs with the TCK setup. yet, some have strongly pointed at the GC setup. I agree with the PSS9 being more street than track oriented.
This year I ran TC Kline’s DA Konis w/ stock springs along with Racing Dynamics’ front sway bar in SCCA Solo II B Stock.

I recently installed TC Kline’s complete coilover kit with their new E46 camber/caster plates. The car has been lowered by about 1 1/4". I’m preparing the car for STX next year. The car is still being prepared and dialed in so I don’t feel confident giving out settings quite yet.

I was kind’a joking about my earlier comment… about it being all suspension. You can drop 5 seconds by taking a driving school, not my installing suspension. If you’re a consistent driver, installing a complete racing suspension kit and having it properly dialed in may gain you 2 seconds… but not five.
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Old 12-07-2004, 01:47 AM   #10
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How about TEIN?
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Old 01-01-2005, 12:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GODZPEED
I have a '01 325i and just finished my first year in autocross/track scene. Now I am looking into coilover suspension set ups. I am looking for the most agressive, stiffest adjustable suspension available for my 325i. It will be primarily a track car, so I am not concerned with everyday ride characteristics. After watching a fellow driver with an E30, grant it he has invested a lot into his BMW, driving through corners with a front tire off the ground, and hearing spring rates of 800, 900, 1000, I am in need of a little more knowledge and advice! So with that said, which of these suspensions mentioned above, will have the stiffest spring rates, widest range of adjustment, best chance at shaving time of my runs/laps? Some added info: the car currently has a DINAN CAI with software, and will be running on 17x8/9 SSR comps with R compounds. Thanks ahead of time to all your responses/help/support. GODSPEED
Your best bet is to go with TC Kline or Ground Control coilovers. The reason is you can customize your spring rates for your driving style and tastes. The others don't allow that. PSS9's spring rates, most people agree are too soft for the track and unless you get the ground control kit for allowing swapping Eibach springs you are stuck with one spring rate. (I'm not even sure GC makes the kit anymore).
The TC Kline and Ground Control are both adjustable Koni shock based and IMO are better shocks than Bilstein for quality and reliability. TC Kline has their own VVS springs and Ground Control use Eibach. If you want to later swap out different spring rates, it's really easy with both systems, just order the spring rate you want and swap them. It's about $100 each end.
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Old 01-01-2005, 02:39 PM   #12
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teins you can change the spring rate too and they have been known in the racing crowd for a long time...also probably the best price too 1100 for the set and 300 for the edfc..which allows you to fine tune the suspension from the drivers seat...think of that benefit alone...if its too soft just stiffen it up...they come with 520lb and 390lb springs which isnt too bad...16 way adj..
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Old 01-01-2005, 05:57 PM   #13
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Where did you see that pricing for Tein? Im looking into coilovers and they sound pretty good for the price, esp with the edfc!
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Old 01-01-2005, 06:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Where did you see that pricing for Tein? Im looking into coilovers and they sound pretty good for the price, esp with the edfc!
It was in the Sponsor/Group Buy forum, do a search for Tein...
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