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Old 03-10-2006, 05:34 PM   #21
blownE30M3
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Take from Dolby's site:

Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby Digital Plus is a highly sophisticated and versatile audio codec based on Dolby Digital and designed specifically to adapt to the changing demands of future audio, video delivery, and audio storage systems while simultaneously retaining backwards compatibility with the existing Dolby Digital 5.1-channel home theater systems in use today.

Broadcast Applications

Dolby Digital Plus is ideal for limited bandwidth environments such as broadcast television. As highly efficient video coding systems like H.264 are adopted, broadcasters can deliver increased capability and capacity through new set-top boxes in the same spectrum they are using today, while retaining playback compatibility with existing Dolby Digital A/V receivers. The Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) approved a revision to the A/52A Standard (A/52B) that incorporates Dolby Digital Plus as the high-efficiency audio coding system for robust mode transmission of E-VSB. Dolby Digital Plus is also included in the Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB) specifications as an option for HD and other digital TV services. Devices equipped with Dolby Digital Plus are capable of decoding Dolby Digital broadcast bitstreams for compatibility with existing broadcast services.

This is sort of what I am talking about. 7.1 and 9.1 capable receivers are few and far between. Such as the Lexicon RV8 pictured here:

http://www.lexicon.com/products/overview.asp?ID=14

Like I said, when a movie is fimed and mixed in studio it is encoded with up to 9 channels of audio. Go to a movie theater, what do you see? Thats right, 9 or more speakers. These theaters utilize decoding software and equipment to fully exaggerate the ecoded audio. Receivers for your home would could cost thousands to do the same thing. I take that back. 10's of thousands. But most of the high dollar receivers like I just showed you will do 7.1. This is not some kind of beefed up 5.1 receiver like you would think. If a DVD has the capability to do 7.1 (which most dont) then it will do it.

You have to realize residential technology has not caught up to commercial technology yet. Hence the quote at the top of this post....hence the reason I say you will see it shortly...

Did that clarify it for you?
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blownE30M3
Take from Dolby's site:

Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby Digital Plus is a highly sophisticated and versatile audio codec based on Dolby Digital and designed specifically to adapt to the changing demands of future audio, video delivery, and audio storage systems while simultaneously retaining backwards compatibility with the existing Dolby Digital 5.1-channel home theater systems in use today.

Broadcast Applications

Dolby Digital Plus is ideal for limited bandwidth environments such as broadcast television. As highly efficient video coding systems like H.264 are adopted, broadcasters can deliver increased capability and capacity through new set-top boxes in the same spectrum they are using today, while retaining playback compatibility with existing Dolby Digital A/V receivers. The Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) approved a revision to the A/52A Standard (A/52B) that incorporates Dolby Digital Plus as the high-efficiency audio coding system for robust mode transmission of E-VSB. Dolby Digital Plus is also included in the Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB) specifications as an option for HD and other digital TV services. Devices equipped with Dolby Digital Plus are capable of decoding Dolby Digital broadcast bitstreams for compatibility with existing broadcast services.

This is sort of what I am talking about. 7.1 and 9.1 capable receivers are few and far between. Such as the Lexicon RV8 pictured here:

http://www.lexicon.com/products/overview.asp?ID=14

Like I said, when a movie is fimed and mixed in studio it is encoded with up to 9 channels of audio. Go to a movie theater, what do you see? Thats right, 9 or more speakers. These theaters utilize decoding software and equipment to fully exaggerate the ecoded audio. Receivers for your home would could cost thousands to do the same thing. I take that back. 10's of thousands. But most of the high dollar receivers like I just showed you will do 7.1. This is not some kind of beefed up 5.1 receiver like you would think. If a DVD has the capability to do 7.1 (which most dont) then it will do it.

You have to realize residential technology has not caught up to commercial technology yet. Hence the quote at the top of this post....hence the reason I say you will see it shortly...

Did that clarify it for you?
Yes..but that still isn't 7.1 channels. Movie theaters have many many speakers in a theater to create sound, it doesn't necessarily mean there are any more channels than what is in a normal home theater receiever.

Plus..more importantly...Even as a home theater nut, 7.1 is way, way more than enough. I couldn't imagine what a normal consumer would think of that many. If the industry pushes for more channels look for consumers to respond by their wallet vote.

The point is..nobody has created a standard that has more than 5.1 channels of discrete sound, in or out of the theater.
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Old 03-11-2006, 08:42 AM   #23
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if it's hard to believe what blowne30m3 says, put your recieiver in phantom mode and compare it with regular surround mode.

...most of the time...it sounds as there is something missing......

I was without my center channel for a while, so i had to put my yamaha into phantom where it addedd processing to integrate the center into the L/R speakers. YUK!
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by James330I
I was without my center channel for a while, so i had to put my yamaha into phantom where it addedd processing to integrate the center into the L/R speakers. YUK!
What kind of L/R speakers do you have? Make/model?
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:56 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by blownE30M3
When you change modes to a stereo output. Either your 7 channel, 2 channel, what have you, you negate the software installed for surround sound decoding and place the load on all the speakers. There is no decoding done by the receiver, it is purely spitting out the level.
This is true, but switching to a phantom center doesn't switch to stereo mode, so your point is moot.
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Old 03-11-2006, 01:03 PM   #26
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I just realized why the center channel is important: With music you have no visual image that you need to sync the sound up to. If you're sitting off center, you'll hear the central image biased towards the closer speaker, but you'll still enjoy the music just fine. But if you have a visual image that the sound is supposed to sync to - and the audio image is off to the side of the screen, then it will cause a disconnect in your brain and it will sound just plain wrong. The center channel locks the center audio image to the screen no matter where you sit so you avoid this problem entirely. Makes sense now.

If you are off-center, then you will be out of position for all of the drivers (including the rears). Surround setups are even more sensitive to listener position than stereo setups. The more point-sources you have, the harder it is to create a believable image. That is why stereo is so successful (and quadrophonic, etc failed). It is also the reason why so much emphasis is placed on tuning surround setups with test-tones, etc.

I think you were right before (with your first post). Center channel is the least important speaker in a surround setup. I agree 100% with your first post!
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Old 03-11-2006, 04:32 PM   #27
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You guys are all wrong. The left "presence" channel on those Yamaha 9.1 channel receivers is by FAR the most important channel, unless my dog is half shaved and painted orange, in which case the most important speakers is th right presence speaker.

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Old 03-11-2006, 04:45 PM   #28
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The upgrading of sound formats needs to stop in my opinion. Dolby Digital and DTS sound absolutely fine as is, any more "upgrades" past this point are just so electronics companies can sell new receievers. DD and DTS in their current states are exactly what you get in the theater. Sound really cannot, and should not be improved any further.
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Old 03-11-2006, 05:15 PM   #29
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The upgrading of sound formats needs to stop in my opinion. Dolby Digital and DTS sound absolutely fine as is, any more "upgrades" past this point are just so electronics companies can sell new receievers. DD and DTS in their current states are exactly what you get in the theater. Sound really cannot, and should not be improved any further.

I agree - they should just stick with 5.1 DTS and focus on making better movies.
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Old 03-11-2006, 05:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewey
What kind of L/R speakers do you have? Make/model?
definitive technogloy bipolar spakers (non powered)

Room size is 17 x 22, with speakers 2' from wall (which is within recommened range for bipolars)
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Old 03-11-2006, 06:35 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by James330I
definitive technogloy bipolar spakers (non powered)

Room size is 17 x 22, with speakers 2' from wall (which is within recommened range for bipolars)
Which model?
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Old 03-11-2006, 08:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewey
Which model?
i believe BP30...it's in storage right now....looking to get revel concertas once the house is done
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Old 03-11-2006, 11:34 PM   #33
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i believe BP30...it's in storage right now....looking to get revel concertas once the house is done
Nice. Those should definitely play fine without a center. Did you adjust your pre/processor to create a phantom center? If you run test tones with a 4.1 setup, you should still hear a center channel - if you don't, you're missing a step.
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Old 03-22-2006, 03:24 PM   #34
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hey Ryan, you ever done a 9.4 Media Room setup, thats what we are going with at the new house we are about to break ground on
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