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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 04-05-2006, 12:32 AM   #81
nacho
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Originally Posted by 3erdriver
There are a couple things to consider in this. The average consumer isn't going to want to mod their car, mainly because of warranty issues. With an NA engine you can add parts and even change the ECU, and it's gonna be hard for the dealer to prove the parts had an effect on the engine. But when you increase the boost it's really easy to say that's what cause any problems. Plus you're gonna have the issue that the current e46's have now. You can supercharge a 330 and get the same power levels as an m3 but because the M3 revs so much higher it ends up having faster acceleration times because there's more powerband between shifts. Assuming the new e90 m3 v-8 is derived from the current m5/6 v-10 (which has more or less been confirmed), the engine will rev incredibly high (somewhere in the vacinity 8000 rpms). So while it will be easy to get to the e90 M3 power levels, the M3 will still be quicker due to an extra gear (assuming the 7speed SMG) and higher redline. Plus to get M3 handling performance you're gonna have to overhaul the suspension of the 335, and possibly ditch some weight. So it adds up. But all in all the 335 WILL be the incredible tuning platform that we've been waiting years for.
I agree with what you said but I want to clarify one thing. As you said, a lot of people think that adding a SC makes your 330 and M3. I have seen these claims all the time. Especially in the auto trader but it's not just gearing. The M3 is built from the ground up to go fast. It is not just a powerful engine but it has additional aluminum components that are steel in the 330 so in order to really make an M3 out of 330 you would actually have to swap so many pieces, fenders, etc. that are in fact lighter. So it is very difficult to make your 330 an M3. You might be able to make it almost fast enough but the extra weight will hurt you in handling, braking, etc.
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Old 04-05-2006, 01:36 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3erdriver
There are a couple things to consider in this. The average consumer isn't going to want to mod their car, mainly because of warranty issues. With an NA engine you can add parts and even change the ECU, and it's gonna be hard for the dealer to prove the parts had an effect on the engine. But when you increase the boost it's really easy to say that's what cause any problems. Plus you're gonna have the issue that the current e46's have now. You can supercharge a 330 and get the same power levels as an m3 but because the M3 revs so much higher it ends up having faster acceleration times because there's more powerband between shifts. Assuming the new e90 m3 v-8 is derived from the current m5/6 v-10 (which has more or less been confirmed), the engine will rev incredibly high (somewhere in the vacinity 8000 rpms). So while it will be easy to get to the e90 M3 power levels, the M3 will still be quicker due to an extra gear (assuming the 7speed SMG) and higher redline. Plus to get M3 handling performance you're gonna have to overhaul the suspension of the 335, and possibly ditch some weight. So it adds up. But all in all the 335 WILL be the incredible tuning platform that we've been waiting years for.
The points u bring up are all valid, but there are still unknown variables that could swing the performance pendulum either way..... pending the official specifications of the 335i turbo engine, available transmission options, its redline, and suspension platform... it will be interesting to see how close the 335i can get to the E92 M3's performance with simple bolt-on upgrades! If 335i buyers are anything like E46 buyers, I doubt the cars would be stock for long
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Old 04-05-2006, 08:51 AM   #83
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see, my point exactly!!! why do i have to do that when they could have just as easily done that!?!?!

at least with my car you could say that they did it because it would have been cost prohibitive to build an NA engine to produce 300+ hp. with the turbo they have no excuse! it is like me buying a supercharger that only added 50 hp for $5k. nobody on this board would do it. and if they did they would be looking for larger pullies etc. why not just do it right from the begining.

You are buying an aftermarket supercharger. With this setup it is completely stock WITH factory warranty. FI is a major bragging factor with this car, that alone will sell many of them. If you read the article you are not only gaining horsepower but also a 34% increase in torque with a broader powerband! A gain of 75 torque is major. The potential for this car is great too. Like it was said before a chip could very well increase output 50-75hp + torque to boot.

Why don't they increase tuning to begin with? Emissions! Plus it is perfectly placed in between the 330 and M3. If you have 40k+ to spend on this car then you have enough for a 500 dollar chip if you need that extra power. I for one cant wait for this car to come out. It is definately a major contender for my next car!
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:19 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by 04ImolaZHP
i dont disagree with you guys on what you are saying. i absolutely love bmw's as exhibited by the fact that we have two. as you will note above i said the same thing you did in my post.

i am just comparing a bmw with a bmw. in fact i am comparing the same line of cars. i am looking at potentially dropping a supercharger in my car and am looking to pick up an extra 100+ hp with the stage one kit for like $5k. that is still more hp than what the new 335i will be and i guarantee you that mine will be faster and will drive just as good as the 335i. so, for once we are comparing apples for apples. i mean on paper the e90 330i should be faster and better than the e46 zhp but it is not. it has more hp, the same differential and other improvements but is not better. now add 47 hp and it should be faster but in my opinion the new 335i should be just about in the old m3 territory which with what i am seeing it probably will not be short of a different rear end and other improvements.

all i am saying is that they CAN do better. why waste a twin turbo for 47 hp? if you're gonna put a turbo do it right and get at least 100 hp out of it. that is all i am saying. hell, they are putting a twin turbo which they had to develop etc, when they could have just as easily stuffed the old m3 engine there and saved themselves a bunch of r&d costs and had one hell of a car. instead they waisted a bunch of money making an underachiever engine super duper smooth when they already had one ready.

to each their own, some of you like the new styling some dont. i happen to not like the new styling and found that the engine configurations do not do anything for me either. at least with the 5 series, even though i dont like the styling, i have an engine that inspires me.

and please dont tell me that the supras had problems. it is not like our cars are perfect...
I agree with you on putting the old m3 engine in, but then I guarantee alot of critics would start the whole "BMW is becoming lazy" "aren't they supposed to be the pinnacle of engineering?
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:44 AM   #85
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I agree with you on putting the old m3 engine in, but then I guarantee alot of critics would start the whole "BMW is becoming lazy" "aren't they supposed to be the pinnacle of engineering?

That's why BMW will never be able to please everybody. It's impossible! No matter what direction they take, people will complain.
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Old 04-05-2006, 02:20 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by TonyluvSilvia
The points u bring up are all valid, but there are still unknown variables that could swing the performance pendulum either way..... pending the official specifications of the 335i turbo engine, available transmission options, its redline, and suspension platform... it will be interesting to see how close the 335i can get to the E92 M3's performance with simple bolt-on upgrades! If 335i buyers are anything like E46 buyers, I doubt the cars would be stock for long
The official specifications are out on the engine, BMW released an Official Press release about the new engine, that gave redline, power, torque. I doubt basic bolt-ons will get the 335 to e92 M3 performance, power levels yes, but see above as to why that isn't enough.
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:14 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Milli330ci
I for one cant wait for this car to come out. It is definately a major contender for my next car!
i wish i could say the same. as much as i love bmw their new cars are just not cutting it for me . i am actually looking at an '01 740i sport for my next vehicle or a 05-06 s4. only time will tell...
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:19 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by 04ImolaZHP
i wish i could say the same. as much as i love bmw their new cars are just not cutting it for me . i am actually looking at an '01 740i sport for my next vehicle or a 05-06 s4. only time will tell...
For me it's the "styling" that is driving me away. The new Audis are hot, even the lowly A3 is hot. Why is that Audi can make attractive cars, but BMW can't all of a sudden? (E46 Coupes Excluded)
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:03 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by nacho
For me it's the "styling" that is driving me away. The new Audis are hot, even the lowly A3 is hot. Why is that Audi can make attractive cars, but BMW can't all of a sudden? (E46 Coupes Excluded)
well it's only your point of view...
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:27 AM   #90
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well it's only your point of view...
Of course it's my point of view, styling is subjective, but I am not alone. I love the BMWs but the styling of new ones is terrible. If you like it that is great. I'm glad someone does but not me. I bet you like the Chevy Monte Carlo too!
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Old 04-06-2006, 02:34 PM   #91
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Wow, i'm amazed this thread didn't turn into a huge internet brawl. Good job fellas!

(And great info)

-Chris
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Old 04-06-2006, 03:28 PM   #92
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For me it's the "styling" that is driving me away. The new Audis are hot, even the lowly A3 is hot. Why is that Audi can make attractive cars, but BMW can't all of a sudden? (E46 Coupes Excluded)

Not everybody agrees that the current Audi vehicles are hot. Alot of Audi lovers aren't happy with the current Audi nose, among other things. Like someone stated above, aesthetics are subjective.
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Old 04-06-2006, 03:33 PM   #93
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Not everybody agrees that the current Audi vehicles are hot. Alot of Audi lovers aren't happy with the current Audi nose, among other things. Like someone stated above, aesthetics are subjective.
You have a point. The new nose is terrible too but overall the car is still attractive, IMHO, there is nothing l like about the new style BWW, not one thing that I can point to and say...ooh, that is nice. I like the rear of the Audis and most cars there is something about the styling that is appealing. Not with the new design. I have no reason to not like them and I keep trying to convince myself that eventually I will like them. Then I see them on the road and I'm continuously surprised at how shockingly ugly the new style really is. The rear of 3 series and 7 series is especially horrible. Terrible. Just Terrible. how do you go from being an aesthetic work of form and function to this?
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Old 04-06-2006, 05:53 PM   #94
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I dont like the newer body styles they are rounded off and look like many other cars out there, I think the E46s and E30s look much better even if they aren't as fast.
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