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Old 06-14-2006, 04:09 PM   #121
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So, basically, if you have a manual, it's not "sporty", it only indicates that you either 1) have an underpowered car, or 2) are trying to save money by getting the cheaper transmission that saves a small bit of money on gas.
You must have a really real race car! SCHUMI?
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:23 PM   #122
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You must have a really real race car! SCHUMI?
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:38 PM   #123
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Who's saying its about proving manhood. The bottom line is that the ONLY situation where an automatic transmission is seen as "superior" actually has nothing to do with the transmission at all. Rather, it has to do with the parasitic elements within it which, at the purest level, is a negative aspect. Again, in a 2000hp car, or a 1001hp Veyron, or on the drag strip with a huge engine, the car needs the automatic to be able to make it so you the driver doesn't mess up. It reduces the power and handles itb etter than you can. But again, like I said before, a manual even with these powerful engines is BETTER than an automatic... just look at any funny car or dragster. They ALL have MANUAL transmissions. Its an SMG, which, as I said, is a MANUAL transmission, not an automatic. Lets drop the whole manhood thing and understand that a proper manual transmission (proper in that its capable of handling whatever power you have) will ALWAYS be better than automatic. The Veyron would be better with a manual but it would require changing the gearing and also using a clutch that would likely be far too herky jerky for the cruise-style driving its being bought to do.
The dragster that i posted had a airshifter which works automaticaly. It kindof like 2 transmissions in one box witgh one of them having gears 1,3,5, and the other 2,4,6. When one tranny disengages the other engages. All Electronically tuned where to shift so driver does nothin but push a button. Their is no way anyone can drive this car with a manual tranny and run the same times as the auto in it. You just put is in drive and it shifts through everygear. Alot of race cars have these transmissions.

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Old 06-14-2006, 05:57 PM   #124
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The dragster that i posted had a airshifter which works automaticaly. It kindof like 2 transmissions in one box witgh one of them having gears 1,3,5, and the other 2,4,6. When one tranny disengages the other engages. All Electronically tuned where to shift so driver does nothin but push a button. Their is no way anyone can drive this car with a manual tranny and run the same times as the auto in it. You just put is in drive and it shifts through everygear. Alot of race cars have these transmissions.
You are still missing the point entirely. I don't know what it is with people in this thread but its absolutely insane! The transmission you describe is MORE of a manual transmission than it is an automatic transmission. It does not have a torque converter; it has a clutch. It is therefore, at its heart, a MANUAL transmission. Just because you are not manually moving a knob to go into gears does not make it a automatic by default. Merely because it shifts gears "automatically" does not make it something that is defined as an "automatic transmission".

You are splitting the term "automatic transmission" into two separate words... "automatic" and "transmission" and then using the definition of each to arrive at your conclusion. Which is ENTIRELY INCORRECT AND MISLEADING. Do you understand what I'm saying? This is simple english language mechanics and definitions here.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:03 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer
You are still missing the point entirely. I don't know what it is with people in this thread but its absolutely insane! The transmission you describe is MORE of a manual transmission than it is an automatic transmission. It does not have a torque converter; it has a clutch. It is therefore, at its heart, a MANUAL transmission. Just because you are not manually moving a knob to go into gears does not make it a automatic by default. Merely because it shifts gears "automatically" does not make it something that is defined as an "automatic transmission".

You are splitting the term "automatic transmission" into two separate words... "automatic" and "transmission" and then using the definition of each to arrive at your conclusion. Which is ENTIRELY INCORRECT AND MISLEADING. Do you understand what I'm saying? This is simple english language mechanics and definitions here.
put him in his place!
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:24 PM   #126
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Manual, in terms of performance, is ALWAYS better than automatic provided that the manual transmission is properly matched (gears, strength, clutch, etc) to the amount of power that the engine is putting out.
Negative.
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Old 06-14-2006, 07:11 PM   #127
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Name a single car that runs an automatic transmission that would not see added performance with a manual. Now remember, an SMG is manual. A shifter in a funny car is manual. A shifter in a dragster is manual.
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Old 06-14-2006, 07:35 PM   #128
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I agree with you^^^^ but to be the devil's advocate- an Audi A3, or A4 with a DSG auto, the auto is faster than the stick, the tests prove it.
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Old 06-14-2006, 08:15 PM   #129
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So a transmission that shifts itself but doesnt have a torque convertor is a manual? The only thing that makes up an automatic tranny is the torque convertor. If it doesnt have a torque convertor it is a manual tranny...
Technically everyone that has SMG and all the other trannies that do not include a torque convertor has a manual, But do people really consider it manual. I dont think so. If someone with an SMG pulled up and he said he had a manual would you sit their and say yea you do, or is it an Automatic tranny that doesnt have a torque convertor. That is the way a i see it

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Old 06-14-2006, 08:59 PM   #130
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So a transmission that shifts itself but doesnt have a torque convertor is a manual? The only thing that makes up an automatic tranny is the torque convertor. If it doesnt have a torque convertor it is a manual tranny...
Technically everyone that has SMG and all the other trannies that do not include a torque convertor has a manual, But do people really consider it manual. I dont think so. If someone with an SMG pulled up and he said he had a manual would you sit their and say yea you do, or is it an Automatic tranny that doesnt have a torque convertor. That is the way a i see it
Completely irrelevant what people consider. The mere definition of a manual gearbox is one that uses a clutch to be the barrier between the engine and the flywheel/drivetrain. If it has a clutch and not a torque converter, it is manual. Again, the way you see it is fine. Its how you view it. But its not how any textbook or any engineer sees it, and, to be honest, thats really all that matters!

And to address the DSG system. The DSG system, like the SMG system, is still MANUAL. Its so funny how people keep thinking just because gears are shifted automatically that it is therefore an "automatic transmission". Read up on it here: http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyoune...owDSGworks.htm

"As with a manual transmission, the SMT [aka SMG] provides a direct connection between engine and transmission, allowing 100 of the engine's power to be transmitted to the wheels."

You'll see that it is a manual gearbox that has the gears shifted automatically just how an SMG does with hydrolics and the use of, once again, a CLUTCH. Everyone, stop being stubborn here! SMG, DSG, Airshifters, whatever... if it has a clutch its manual. If it has a torque converter, its an automatic. End of story. No questions about it. Its fact. Not perception. Not opinion. Not how I see it or how you see it. Its how the facts see it.
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:32 PM   #131
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Name a single car that runs an automatic transmission that would not see added performance with a manual. Now remember, an SMG is manual. A shifter in a funny car is manual. A shifter in a dragster is manual.
Any serious drag cars, yes those are autos.
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:24 AM   #132
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I say manual tranny involves the manual labor of using the clutch pedal, but what I see as auto certainly doesn't match everyone elses opinion
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Old 06-15-2006, 01:40 AM   #133
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Completely irrelevant what people consider. The mere definition of a manual gearbox is one that uses a clutch to be the barrier between the engine and the flywheel/drivetrain. If it has a clutch and not a torque converter, it is manual. Again, the way you see it is fine. Its how you view it. But its not how any textbook or any engineer sees it, and, to be honest, thats really all that matters!

And to address the DSG system. The DSG system, like the SMG system, is still MANUAL. Its so funny how people keep thinking just because gears are shifted automatically that it is therefore an "automatic transmission". Read up on it here: http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyoune...owDSGworks.htm

"As with a manual transmission, the SMT [aka SMG] provides a direct connection between engine and transmission, allowing 100 of the engine's power to be transmitted to the wheels."

You'll see that it is a manual gearbox that has the gears shifted automatically just how an SMG does with hydrolics and the use of, once again, a CLUTCH. Everyone, stop being stubborn here! SMG, DSG, Airshifters, whatever... if it has a clutch its manual. If it has a torque converter, its an automatic. End of story. No questions about it. Its fact. Not perception. Not opinion. Not how I see it or how you see it. Its how the facts see it.
Well i dont know what engineers you know or how THEY view things or even if your an engineer yourself. The fact is my uncle refers to his race car as an automatic as well as everyone else on his team. It really doesn't matter to me what is driving the transmission for it to shift on its own. My THEORY is that if it shifts on its own then it is an automatic. Whether what i am saying is right or wrong i am not taking it from any textbook. I am just picking it up from being in the shop. Even when i go to the BMW dealership they tell me the SMG is LIKE an automatic. None of them ever say it is like a manual. Because What the general public knows is that if the car can shift itself then it is automatic NOT MANUAL.
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Old 06-15-2006, 08:20 AM   #134
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Well i dont know what engineers you know or how THEY view things or even if your an engineer yourself. The fact is my uncle refers to his race car as an automatic as well as everyone else on his team. It really doesn't matter to me what is driving the transmission for it to shift on its own. My THEORY is that if it shifts on its own then it is an automatic. Whether what i am saying is right or wrong i am not taking it from any textbook. I am just picking it up from being in the shop. Even when i go to the BMW dealership they tell me the SMG is LIKE an automatic. None of them ever say it is like a manual. Because What the general public knows is that if the car can shift itself then it is automatic NOT MANUAL.
Well then they are stupid.

Bottom line, simply because something is LIKE an automatic does not MAKE it an automatic. Just because I can drink like a fish, does not make me a fish. Again, its fine that you look at it this way, but its not the accepted way of looking at it. And just because your uncle looks at it as an automatic, again, does not make it correct. Like you, he can look at it aaaaany way he wants but when it comes down to it and auto is an auto and a manual is a manual. Also, I think I need to a qualifying statement about drag cars. Yes, some professional dragsters use automatic transmissions with torque converters but this is merely because of the sheer power they produce. Like I said before, if they were able to mate a powerful enough clutch and be skilled enough to mow through the gears with a manual, then it would be faster. But, you are right, dragsters use automatics because 1) no is that skilled and 2) no clutch/gears can handle that power. But a manual will have 0% loss of power where as an automatic will have a loss. This lose, in these extreme circumstances is desirable simply because it makes the car drivable... know what I mean?
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Old 06-15-2006, 10:34 AM   #135
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Well then they are stupid.

Bottom line, simply because something is LIKE an automatic does not MAKE it an automatic. Just because I can drink like a fish, does not make me a fish. Again, its fine that you look at it this way, but its not the accepted way of looking at it. And just because your uncle looks at it as an automatic, again, does not make it correct. Like you, he can look at it aaaaany way he wants but when it comes down to it and auto is an auto and a manual is a manual. Also, I think I need to a qualifying statement about drag cars. Yes, some professional dragsters use automatic transmissions with torque converters but this is merely because of the sheer power they produce. Like I said before, if they were able to mate a powerful enough clutch and be skilled enough to mow through the gears with a manual, then it would be faster. But, you are right, dragsters use automatics because 1) no is that skilled and 2) no clutch/gears can handle that power. But a manual will have 0% loss of power where as an automatic will have a loss. This lose, in these extreme circumstances is desirable simply because it makes the car drivable... know what I mean?
Yea i understand what your saying, only an idiot wouldnt. I just don't agree with it. The Last thing about the dragsters that he has is that a manual can not shift faster then his trannies. Simply because when you have 7 gears and you use all seven in one 1/4 mile and run a 6 second at 23? MPH. No one can shift a car like that and keep it on the track.
But i do understand what you saying. I dont think i ever said you were wrong, i was just stayin the way i viewed and how many other people view it
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Old 06-15-2006, 11:25 AM   #136
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Fair enough. Its just kinda sorta wrong. No worries, no hard feelings haha.
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