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Old 02-11-2007, 03:41 PM   #21
RSL
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I have pics of everything. If you look back for the pic with the yellow circles, that's the "after" part, but I have pics of the panels from before I trimmed the plastic/grill ring also. I'll post them later tonight if you want to see before/after next to each other.

No, I haven't cut any metal in the doors yet. That will probably be next weekend's project. ATM, I am getting the wiring/fuse holders/distribution blocks set up and then I'll probably just drop the EQX/amp on a board for the time being so I can have some tunes for the drive to work tomorrow
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Old 02-11-2007, 04:33 PM   #22
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yeah the pics would be great.

so you are planning to cut metal (damn) why and wher abouts do you need to cut?

i asume you have bolted the mdf surround to the door correct?

what id like to do is something similar with so JL ZR speakers they need 59mm mounting depth do you think that can be done without cutting metal?

cheers mate i for one really appreciate the effort your going to by documenting this
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Old 02-11-2007, 05:55 PM   #23
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I'll post them later for ya...just up for a coffee break Either that, or PM me your email address and I'll send the full res versions.

Let me clarify, I don't *need* to cut the metal door, but it's better for sound by giving the mid an enclosure. It should be a lot better just mounting the mids on the door like this anyway, but I want the best I can get from the setup so I am going to open up the metal.

If you read back in my original post you'll see that I noted the depth to the top of the baffle (without cutting the door) and it varies between 2-3/4" to 3-1/8" depending where I measured in the "indent" on the door. You can also see my mids are mounted without cutting the metal and have plenty of room behind them.

EDIT: yes, the baffle is bolted to the door in 3 places: top front, bottom front and on the back edge towards the bottom using a 3.75" long brace to give it more stability near the top back edge...works great, the baffle doesn't budge at all.
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:21 PM   #24
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hi great to see someone doin a proper job for a change. I am currently builidng my install which is total custom high end sq usiing hertz mille speaker. I have built many BMW's which can be seen on my web which is urrently being updated. I would advise you to cut the metal just to allow he speaker to breathe into the door this will give you a nec enclosure and good mid bass response but you will have to protect the speaker from water ingress and moisture. I normally install a moisture guard and add some dyanamat type product to enhance the sound futher. I noticed you have gone stock location for the tweeters too ! As well as this you could have kept your factory amp just unplugged it like you have done and installed a Audio control LC8 or a JL Audio clean sweep would have been better as this automatically sums your speaker inupts gives you remote turn on and preputs to your amps ! Any q's pm me love to help ! Will be posting pics of my install progress...as i run a business my own car gets left behind !
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Old 02-11-2007, 09:17 PM   #25
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RSL, what part of Texas are you from??? I'm in the Houston area. If you're pretty close or in the the tri-city area, I'd love to see your set up sometime, if you didn't mind. I've been contemplating installing a system in my car. A nice clean, factory look, and nothing really over the top. Most likey 1 10" JL. I'm not an audiophile(in fact, I don't know crap), but I do like a little bass, and really clean sound.
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:45 PM   #26
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F-U, I am in Austin and don't get to Houston very much unless I am passing through on I-10. It's definitely a stealth install since the mids/highs are behind the stock grills and I am using the stock HU. It's kinda hard to hide stuff in the trunk, but by the time I am done with it, I want everything out of sight behind removable panels.

Ash, I am cutting the metal, just not this weekend. Were you talking to Alex there? I used the stock tweet locations just due to time (need tunes for tomorrow). I am going to put HLCDs in as soon as I can, so I wasn't going to play around with custom positioning them one way or the other.

Signal might be better with LC8 or Cleansweep (it better be). Cleansweep is definitely nice, but a waste of $$ on this car and you have to use a separate volume control. If they gave the end user access to all those bands of EQ, I'd be more inclined! LC8, just about any other AC product can be used as a conveter+line driver so it's a waste too just for remote sensing. I was going to get a DQXS to use as an interface and might still, but I am not really digging that 2x20 VFD display and navigating through all bands to get to the one I want.

Anyway, I tapped before the amp, I don't need summing and I am using the remote from the stock amp to turn everything on

I'll post pics from today in bit...
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Old 02-11-2007, 11:11 PM   #27
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nicely done!!
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Old 02-12-2007, 01:46 AM   #28
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Thanks!

Today's progress:

I thought I took more pics than this, but I guess not...

How to make a 4/8 gauge distribution block fit 1/0 and 4 gauge...it's called drill bits



Anyone ever wonder how to crimp a terminal on 1/0 gauge wire? Just beat on this crimper with a 3 pound hammer 6-8 times and it's done One of the few install tools I kept and am glad that I did because without one, it's a pain in the arse.

Yes, 1/0 is overkill. I had originally planned to fall right in the 1400-1500W range and may still get there, but there's no such thing as wire that's "too big". Besides, there's only about 18" of it, so it wasn't that big of a deal.



I was originally planning to connect the power ring to the stud on top of the battery terminal, but the 0 gauge ring terminal is about as big as the battery terminal itself and needed too much space to make the bend, so I connected it to the other terminal. There is even just barely enough room to bend the cable at that location.



I whipped up a board to hold the fuse holder and distribution block. We'll call this revision 1. I might take it all the way to the tail light and add the ground distribution block on the right. I cut the curve on the bottom left because I though I was going to need the extra room to get the 1/0 wire up to the holder.

I was originally going to put a piece 1/4" MDF on the back of the trunk panel like a torque plate, but decided I didn't want to drill all kinds of holes through the trunk panel, so mounting points are the stock battery bracket and a single screw up top. It holds very well, but I had to use a longer bolt for the battery bracket.



The board will be carpeted when I get some and make "revision 2", but for the time being, I just painted it black. Since I am only running 1 amp for the time being, I cheated and just used a 4-gauge ground straight from the amp to the - battery terminal



I also didn't spend any time at all hiding wires or routing them (obviously) since the amp will be moving as soon as I make a sub enclosure and then I'll do all the wiring. I'll do somethng a bit more permanent with the x-overs and EQX at the same. Yes, I need to cut one more board to mount the amp/EQX on temporarily.



So pretty much everything in the trunk was thrown together for now, but it works, so I won't complain.

I haven't really had time to mess with it much, but it's definitely 100000x better than stock. I am running half of a Crossfire VR804 (4x100W) to them with the amp gain set to minimum and all other gains set to 0 (EQX) so far. Midbass sounds "OK", but I might have a phase issue. Something seems a little off and I can't put my finger on it. It goes loud and stays clean, but something sounds a bit thin...might be the x-over point or phase, but I haven't had time to try swapping it.

They mids don't seem real happy when I try to run full range + the passives (inherent low end roll off). I tried using the crossover on the amp to try about 70Hz, but that's a big guess on that knob and it didn't seem any better anyway, so I am using the high pass outs (90Hz) on the EQX and they can get loud and stay clean there.

I am running the tweets at -6dB on the passives and it's a pretty good blend with the mids there. 0dB they have no problem overpowering the mids. I am actually quite surprised how well it images/stages for having everything in the stock locations, but the lack of sub bass is really killing it. Some tweaking with the EQX and phase might help, but I need to get the doors cut and install the subs soon.

Even though I am using the cheesiest RCA jacks (GE) that I wired myself for the inputs, busted out the trusty $1.99 3ft Radio Shack RCAs for outs and am using the stock ground in addition to the battery ground, there is no noise! I was truly expecting to have some horrendous engine noise if not total distortion, but it's all clear.

Anyway, I'll fiddle with tuning and "easy" stuff during the week and will plan to cut the doors next week...
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:27 PM   #29
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one thing worth noting - you don't need that huge fuse holder - just attach the distro block straight to the battery and you are fine
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:48 PM   #30
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Yeah, that thing was a mofo to fit and is why the wiring goes up the wall instead of laying flat on top of the batt. If I took it out of the loop, I could lay the distro block on a board on top of the batt right between the + post and bracket and then run right out to the amp...would be a lot more compact.

I messed with phase real quick this morning and it may have sounded a hair clearer overall with only the passenger side mid out of phase, but what it did more was decentralize the imaging.

Of course last night I happen to come across a thread of people complaining they bought these speakers (Polks) after read great reviews on them only to find out they have little midbass LOL. They are clean and clear while going loud, that's for sure, but I might just have speakers that aren't as great in the midbass area as I hoped. Then again, the front/rear of the cones aren't sealed from each other yet because the doors aren't cut and the doors aren't deadened. I guess all of that could help a lot, or at least I hope so.
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Old 02-12-2007, 01:07 PM   #31
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that's how I have my distro block- I should get you a photo of it

You are probably getting some weird cancellation right now on the midbasses, so I'd reserve judgement until you cut.
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Old 02-12-2007, 01:20 PM   #32
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I am all for pics, let's have a look!

Yes, I am definitely reserving final judgement until the doors are cut. It didn't even dawn on me until I was typing that post that there is no separation between the front/rear of the mids and there's gotta be a ton of cancellations. When I pulled the foam out from behind the baffle, I should've put some in front to seal the mid against the door panel in the meantime Oh well, I can live for a week with it the way it is.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:34 PM   #33
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It's looking good - nice work.

I'm all for new amps - I've been there, done that with old ones and I gotta say, I prefer the new stuff....

Thanks for the detailed shots on the doors - I'm going to have to redo mine to get the new drivers in any way
wtf are you putting in now? horny???
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:52 PM   #34
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wtf are you putting in now? horny???
maybe - or lotus

still trying to decide what is more important - staging or tonality - oh and foot room v. price

but let's not derail this thread!
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:58 PM   #35
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Here's mine:



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Old 02-13-2007, 08:01 PM   #36
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everything on this page is terribly outdated, but I used a similar concept to Mark:

http://www.sounddomain.com/ride/656122/3

I used the large fuse holder only b/c I didn't want to rebuild that bracket for the battery - and it was around so no harm no foul. In my last system, I moved the fused distro (a mini anl 0/1 to four 4 ga out) to the positive side of the battery - very low profile.
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Old 02-14-2007, 03:19 AM   #37
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Thanks for the pics guys! Derail all you want...it will be Sat. before I touch anything on the install again...dang work getting in the way.

Mark, nice job on the amp rack/battery bracket...is that just painted wood, plastic, composites? Nice Art series too My original plan was to mount mine flat on the batt with the + block between the + terminal and bracket on the - block on the other side. That would definitely be easier to integrate into a raised floor.

I want to be horny, but don't want to spend $900 on new CD2s, or $500 on CD1 Pros for that matter. Rob, get the Seas and sell me your Neos for like $300

I was greeted with semi-dead battery yesterday. I guess I played around with things a bit too long without starting. Everything shuts down with the key, so it wasn't a drain and the batt wasn't totally dead, just enough to not kick the starter. I found out when I got in the car to go to work, which is always a good time, LOL. Jumped it and it's been fine ever since, but I guess I gotta pay more attention to how long I mess around when the car is off.
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Old 02-14-2007, 07:13 AM   #38
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The panel is painted MDF - would be the perfect wood for these projects if it wouldn't be so damn dusty to work with. :-)

In my first setup I just had one amp with an inline fuse - it was bolted directly to the side of that metal bracket. This current setup needed a bit more space.

One word of advice (from experience) if your battery goes dead: check that your clock, fuel gauge, clutch relay (among other things) all function correctly. My car has a tendency to lock up those functions if the battery goes low and gets boosted. Sometimes it's a good idea to disconnect the battery, get some charge into it, then reconnect and continue charging. That way the car resets itself with a good voltage level. (It isn't the boost, it's the low voltage level that messes it up.)

Mark
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Old 02-14-2007, 07:19 AM   #39
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very clean install!
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:03 AM   #40
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very clean install!
Ditto! You guys are all doing very nice work. I need to mount my front mid-bass drivers this way, just not getting enough punch. Subscribed.
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