E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Bavarian Soundwerks' Mobile Electronics Forum

Bavarian Soundwerks' Mobile Electronics Forum
Have all your A/V and electronics questions answered here. Ipods, A/V, Radar Detectors Oh My!
Sponsored by Bavarian Soundwerks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-22-2003, 02:30 AM   #21
dub mon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 121
My Ride: 2000 BMW 328Ci
Quote:
Originally posted by johnhab
To make it simpler, you can get away with a 4- or 5-channel amp:

2 channels for 2-way components in the front doors. Note the existing setup is 3-way, but it's very difficult if not impossible to find an aftermarket 3-way whose mids fit in the factory locations.

2 channels for JL Stealthboxes which would replace the woofers in the rear deck.

Or, you could get a 5-channel amp and use 4 to bi-amp the fronts (again, kinda over the top) and use the 5th channel to drive the Stealthboxes, wired in parallel. Most 5-channel amps are setup with 4 channels at a lower power (e.g., 4x75W) and the 5th at a higher power for a sub/subs (e.g., 1x200W).

Unless you really care about your rear passengers, you don't have to replace the mids in the rear doors. Remember the rear woofers are gone, and because you've replaced them with subwoofers, you can remove the factory subwoofers.

So that's the easiest way to replace factory equipment for the least pain.
Thanks for the informative posting guys!
I'm new around here, so pardon my ignorance.

johnhab: Could you please advice me on the easiest way to replace a non-HK factory system (I want to retain my stock headunit)?

Additionally, I'm unsure if I want to introduce subwoofers into the system because I want to maintain my truck space.
dub mon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2003, 06:01 PM   #22
BigRain
^_^
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 1,461
My Ride: 316i
so you guys are planning on using 8 speakers only then?

1 pair of componenet speakers on the front (4 speakers)
1 pair of woofer for imaging on the rear door (2 speakers)
1 pair of subwoof on the rear deck (2 speakers)

this is 8 vs. the 12 from the HK system. Will you really get better sound when having 4 less speakers?
__________________

'02 Ti Ag 4dr : 99% stock
BigRain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2003, 07:19 PM   #23
Shortshift
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Michigan (Detroit Metro Area)
Posts: 204
My Ride: 04' 330ci 6-speed
Big, thats what everyone seem to be going with the 8 speaker. I myself want a 12 speaker system... and there inlies my problem.

It seems that EVERYONE is against simply swapping out paper speakers with quality aftermarkets.

If our speakers sound good... then with some extremely sensitive replacment it should sound better.. and louder.. and cleaner. .....

.... but the soundstage might be off due to the fact that the H/K amp crossover points my jade the systems presence.

I personally do not think that the x-over points will be that far off... I mean "mids" drive mids..... !!


So i am leaning towards finding quality high sensitive replacment speaker for the 12 I have. I would bet the stock speakers are not even 87db... and there are some quality 96db out there.... question is, will they fit.

So... anyone know the stock speaker dia. of the 12spkr H/K lay-out ?


side note: If for some reason I cannot live with this setup, then all i have to do it drop in a new AMP and drive me 8 channels to get the 12 speakers more power.
__________________
*****************
-Shortshift
Shortshift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2003, 07:34 PM   #24
BigRain
^_^
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 1,461
My Ride: 316i
I've a question then. W/ the 8 speaker setup aforementioned. We have 4 woofers on all 4 doors but no more mids. Wouldn't that make the system lack of something? Component speakers are only woofers and tweeters right? So people just forget about the mid?

Also, I thoguht the problem w/ 12 speakers w/ aftermarket AMP is that you won't be able to have the right crossovers and that sound filter (Peripheral V4) thing? How does that work then?

I only have 6 speakers now, I want to put in at least 10 speakers including 2 subs. DO you guys think it's possible? @@
__________________

'02 Ti Ag 4dr : 99% stock
BigRain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2003, 12:50 AM   #25
Hota
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 72
My Ride: 2002 E46 M3
Contrary to what you might hear from automotive marketing folks, more speakers does not equate to better sound quality.

Actually, the more speakers you have, the more problems you'll encounter with accurate imaging and proper crossover points.

If you look at high-end home audiophile equipment, you'll find a minimal number of drivers. You'll be able to find high-end 2-way component sets that will be able to accurately reproduce a wide range of frequencies better than any OEM 3-way.

BigRain - As I mentioned before, you won't miss any frequencies with a good 2-way set. In fact, you'll get rid of the resonances where the mid used to overlap with the tweet and woofer. Also, the Ven4 has nothing to do with the number of speakers your amplifier drives. It converts the output from the HK head unit into a standard line signal for the amp. Most amps take 4 input signals: LF,RF,LR, RR. The amp then takes those signals and amplifies it to however many channels your amp has (2, 4, 5, 6, etc.)

Shortshift - The stock tweet and mid are very close in size. I'm planning my upgrade this weekend so I'll let you know the exact size next week. I have to warn you though - I've never seen aftermarket mids that small though. What do you have against getting an aftermarket amp anyhow?
__________________


E46 M3 Ti Silver/Imola
Created 18 June 2002

Hota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2003, 04:16 PM   #26
BigRain
^_^
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 1,461
My Ride: 316i
Quote:
Originally posted by Hota
This is what I've got sitting on the shelf and ready to go in:

a/d/s 346is components for the front stage
a/d/s 6.5" woofers from the 3-series set for rear imaging
Arc Audio 5150cxlr 5-channel amplifier to drive the whole system
Peripheral Ven4 to convert the differential signal from the head unit

I've already got 6x9 Kicker subs swapped out for the HK subs, but I'll have to wire them from 4 ohm stereo to 2 ohm mono to run off of my amp.

Thanks for the explanation HOta.

1) So where do you plan to put the tweeter from the 346is from? the original A-pillar position?
2) Isn't the openings on our door panels for 5.25" speakers only? how are you going to fit the 6.5" woofers on the doors then?
3) if you mount the subs on the rear decks, will it be too much of an overkill for rear passengers?

TIA.
__________________

'02 Ti Ag 4dr : 99% stock
BigRain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2003, 06:27 PM   #27
Shortshift
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Michigan (Detroit Metro Area)
Posts: 204
My Ride: 04' 330ci 6-speed
Jeesh..! this really should'nt be this hard. BMW F'd up when they didnt use standard speaker sizes.

I simply cant tell you how I wish to set up my coupe cuse i do not know EXACTLY where and what size will fit. I would push a nice 6 or 8 channel AMP if I knew where the placment of the speakers will be going...... but seeing that my car is still being built I just unable to varify the locations... (EXACTLY)

I am confused cause i saw a coupe with back-seat tweeters above the mid/woofer.... and someone said there arnt no tweets in the back.....

So untill someone can drop a few photo's of a coupe spkr loc's then I guess I cant do shizer...
__________________
*****************
-Shortshift
Shortshift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2003, 07:09 PM   #28
devGOD
devGOD
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,486
My Ride: AA S/C 2000 323i
Send a message via AIM to devGOD Send a message via Yahoo to devGOD
i like my stock speakers... sounds great, might add an amp in the back though.
devGOD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2003, 08:03 PM   #29
Hota
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 72
My Ride: 2002 E46 M3
Quote:
Originally posted by BigRain


1) So where do you plan to put the tweeter from the 346is from? the original A-pillar position?
2) Isn't the openings on our door panels for 5.25" speakers only? how are you going to fit the 6.5" woofers on the doors then?
3) if you mount the subs on the rear decks, will it be too much of an overkill for rear passengers?

TIA.
1) It's going in the stock midrange position near the next to the door handle (the tweeter position is too small)

2) No. 6.5" speakers will fit in the coupe, but NOT the sedan (depth issues). I'll have to re-using the adapter ring that's glued to the OEM woofer.

3) No. The subs on the coupe are already mounted to the rear deck (as well as the woofers). Low frequencies produce long wavelengths that are longer than the interior of the car. Therefore, passengers can't really tell where the bass is coming from.
__________________


E46 M3 Ti Silver/Imola
Created 18 June 2002

Hota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2003, 08:11 PM   #30
Hota
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 72
My Ride: 2002 E46 M3
Quote:
Originally posted by Shortshift


I am confused cause i saw a coupe with back-seat tweeters above the mid/woofer.... and someone said there arnt no tweets in the back.....

Hopefully this will clear it up based on my knowledge of '02 and '03 models...

You are getting a coupe w/HK, which will have the rear tweeters above the rear armrest. The rear woofers are mounted on the rear deck in the corners. The subwoofers are mounted underneath the rear deck in the middle and vent into the cabin.

What you might have seen is the CiC (convertible coupe) which moves the rear woofer to the armrest position near the tweeter in the coupe. I'm not sure where the subs relocate to.

The person who made the comment about no tweeters in the back may have been referring to a non-HK system.
__________________


E46 M3 Ti Silver/Imola
Created 18 June 2002

Hota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2003, 08:52 PM   #31
Shortshift
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Michigan (Detroit Metro Area)
Posts: 204
My Ride: 04' 330ci 6-speed
Hota, Thnxz

I am getting an 04' coupe (wich went on sale April 1st) and it comes standard with a 12 speaker system.

My understanding now is this:

FRONT: 2 woofers in door kicker, 2 mids near door handle & 2 tweeters near "A"-pillar.

BACK: 2 tweeters above armrest

REAR: (decklid) 2 sub-woofers

And you are also saying that there also 2 woofers mounted on the decklid aswell...?
__________________
*****************
-Shortshift
Shortshift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2003, 11:52 PM   #32
Hota
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 72
My Ride: 2002 E46 M3
Yes exactly...

Assuming '04 coupes are the same as previous E46 coupes w/HK, there are 4 speakers on the rear deck:

-- 2 woofers firing into the cabin mounted towards the far left and right sides of the rear deck

-- 2 subwoofers firing into the trunk, vented into the cabin and mounted in the middle of the deck from the trunk side

However, the tweeter and mid are right next to each other in the same housing under that black mesh next to the door handle.

Check out the photo's from William's upgrade:

William's Upgrade
__________________


E46 M3 Ti Silver/Imola
Created 18 June 2002

Hota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2003, 04:46 PM   #33
BigRain
^_^
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 1,461
My Ride: 316i
HOTA: sell me your HK speakers and amp then.
__________________

'02 Ti Ag 4dr : 99% stock
BigRain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2003, 02:58 PM   #34
Hota
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 72
My Ride: 2002 E46 M3
BigRain...check your e-mail. I'll make you a good deal.
__________________


E46 M3 Ti Silver/Imola
Created 18 June 2002

Hota is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use