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Old 01-09-2008, 07:40 AM   #21
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i think it's great that UUC is offering another alternative for E36/46 cars. by offering the alcon kit, it doesn't mean that the wilwood kit is all of a sudden obsolete. it's just an alternative like rob stated above. different technology = different price points. with that said, i think i'm going to have to order this alcon kit!!
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:40 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks View Post
The #54 JP car ran about half the 2007 season on Wilwoods (and kicked major ass!). Spent the second half of the year testing the Alcon setup, and that's when it got the revised graphics.

- Rob
Ash, big brake kits make all the difference. No need for driver talent.

...and no Rob, do not jump on my ass, it was a joke between Ashley and myself. Actually, I hate to admit it, the Alcon's look like a good kit. Never liked any of the past UUC BBKs or any other products since the orginal Rob Knob, wayyyyy back when.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:30 PM   #23
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Hey Rob random question - do you know if OEM ZHP wheels will clear the 4 piston wilwood caliper? I was recently thinking with the number of road trips i go on I should start carrying a spare, and I know my 17" spare doesn't make it. Was thinking of picking up a ZHP wheel.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:54 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by shady3one3 View Post
Hey Rob random question - do you know if OEM ZHP wheels will clear the 4 piston wilwood caliper? I was recently thinking with the number of road trips i go on I should start carrying a spare, and I know my 17" spare doesn't make it. Was thinking of picking up a ZHP wheel.
Can't say exactly as I have not test-fitted the ZHP wheel. For either our Wilwood or Alcon kits, we've got the wheel fitment diagrams on our website. Simply print life-size (1:1 in printer settings), glue to a piece of cardboard, cut out the profile, and fit into the wheel. This will tell you exactly if there will be interference and will give you a good idea of how big a spacer (if any) you will need. You really only have to worry about the front, BMW rear rotor offset is so much greater that wheel fitment is almost never a problem.

Wilwood 4-piston / 325mm front diagram for E46/E36:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUP..._1_1_TEMPL.pdf

Wilwood 4-piston / 325mm front diagram for E46/E36 (8mm more clearance):
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc/SUP..._1_1_TEMPL.pdf

Alcon 4-piston / 325mm rotor front diagram for E46/E36:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/alcon/I...R_4POT_325.pdf

- Rob
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Old 02-13-2008, 03:56 PM   #25
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Do these brakes use special pads designed specifically for the kit or can they use OEM pads?
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Old 02-13-2008, 04:19 PM   #26
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Do these brakes use special pads designed specifically for the kit or can they use OEM pads?
No BBK would use BMW OEM pads... you wouldn't want it to! That's the idea, more pad area than OE.

The 4-piston Alcon calipers use a specific pad shape as detailed on our website (you have visited our website already and learned all there is to know about the Alcon kits, riiiight?

See this page for details on the pads:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/alcon/pads.htm


Pad shape cross-reference:
Hawk Part # HB 105.630
Performance Friction (PFC) Part # 7700**16.4
Wilwood # 9216
Ferodo Part # FRP1077
All of these companies make a variety of materials in this shape.

- Rob
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Old 02-13-2008, 04:42 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks View Post
No BBK would use BMW OEM pads... you wouldn't want it to! That's the idea, more pad area than OE.

The 4-piston Alcon calipers use a specific pad shape as detailed on our website (you have visited our website already and learned all there is to know about the Alcon kits, riiiight?

See this page for details on the pads:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/alcon/pads.htm


Pad shape cross-reference:
Hawk Part # HB 105.630
Performance Friction (PFC) Part # 7700**16.4
Wilwood # 9216
Ferodo Part # FRP1077
All of these companies make a variety of materials in this shape.

- Rob
Cool, thanks....yes, I did not do my homework
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:38 AM   #28
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can UUC comment on how your Alcon kit compare with this...

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=496339

.....
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by villanovakid View Post
can UUC comment on how your Alcon kit compare with this...

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=496339

.....

What you're looking at in that thread is a kit built by Stasis Engineering for the E46 M3. That kit fits only the E46 M3, Stasis is not available for non-M models.

However, the UUC kit for the E46 M3 is about to be released mid March '08.

So let's do two comparisons for you, Stasis and the UUC M3 kit and UUC 330/325/323 kit:

Stasis for E46 M3:
front: 6-piston/365mm floating rotor - $3695
rear: 4-piston/343mm floating rotor - $2595
TOTAL: $6290
color options: silver only


UUC/Alcon for E46 M3 (pricing published in Roundel, Bimmer magazines):
Front 6-piston/345mm* floating rotor: $2895
Front 4-piston/345mm floating rotor: $2695
Rear 4-piston/328mm floating rotor: $2395
Combo price 6-piston Front and 4-piston Rear: $5100
color options: matte gray or red
* soon to be available: 380mm option (requires 19" or larger wheels)

UUC/Alcon for E46 330/328/325/323:
Front 4-piston/325mm floating rotor: $2395
Front 4-piston/325mm solid rotor: $1999
Rear 4-piston/328mm solid rotor: $2395
Rear 4-piston/328mm solid rotor: $1999
Combo price 4-piston Front and 4-piston Rear:
w/floating rotors: $4690 w/solid rotors: $3898
color options: matte gray or red


So what are the differences and what do they mean?

Rotor sizes:

First, you will notice that the initial UUC offerings are all 4-piston calipers and only modestly oversized rotors. This was done for very specific reasons, we're designing for racecar applications. In many racing classes, the rules limit upgraded brake calipers to no more than 4 pistons and no more than 5% over original diameter.

However, for those wishing larger, upgrading to the 345mm rotors for 4-piston kits is possible, as well as upgrading to the 380mm rotos for the 6-piston kits. A simple upgrade kit from UUC is available.

Bracket construction:

UUC is the only company offering a true mil-spec heat treated stainless steel bracket design. Multiple benefits:
a) Steel brackets are "lifetime" whereas aluminum, due to accumulated fatigue, is supposed to be replaced at periodic intervals. Our heat treating process makes the steel much stronger than common aluminum brackets.
b) Stainless steel requires no plating, painting, or anodizing and therefore is a much more precise part. Common coating techniques for aluminum add variable thickness, which can affect caliper alignment.
c) Strength - steel is more resistant to deformation, resulting in better caliper alignment under stress and nonexistant flex, which means better pedal feel and pad wear characteristics.
Rotor costs:

UUC's basic floating rotor option uses genuine BMW Motorsport floating rotors made in Germany, which are available at a replacement cost for a complete rotor (which means it includes the hat) that is less than typical 2-piece rotors for the disk only.

For example, the BMW Motorsport floating rotors are approximately $215 each in the 325mm size. Complete rotors from other BBK companies run $495-$895 each. Disks alone will usually run $230-$350, and then you've got to re-assemble it with the hat.

All of that is just a brief overview. For more details (it's important to do thorough research for yourself!), please see:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/alcon

Finally, realize that UUC now has an "official" development relationship with Alcon. For many of our applications, the calipers are custom-built to UUC's specifications for piston size and other details.

Please let me know if you need further clarification.
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Old 03-05-2008, 01:13 PM   #30
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^ great reply UUC
mmm i think the maintenance and wear and tear for normal BBK is definitely a factor if there is a budget ...
thanks!
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:13 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks View Post
So what are the differences and what do they mean?
i think one very important piece of imformation that you left out is the difference in calipers used in the 2 kits...the Stasis kits use monobloc calipers which probably makes up a large portion of the price difference between the kits...

Quote:
In many racing classes, the rules limit upgraded brake calipers to no more than 4 pistons and no more than 5% over original diameter.
koni challenge ST and GS are they only 2 classes i can think of that have that rule...
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:31 AM   #32
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wish i could afford/justify buying a set
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:47 AM   #33
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i think one very important piece of imformation that you left out is the difference in calipers used in the 2 kits...the Stasis kits use monobloc calipers which probably makes up a large portion of the price difference between the kits...
Please review the application list I posted above, you will see that when specifically comparing apples to apples - meaning the Stasis 6-piston and UUC 6-piston for E46 M3, these are the exact same calipers. The only difference is we offer gray and red, and Alcon has made these in red for the very first time exclusively for UUC.


Quote:
koni challenge ST and GS are they only 2 classes i can think of that have that rule...
I think you might be forgetting the most important BMW racing venue...

BMW CCA Club Racing:

2008 rules: http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/stat...08+-+v13.2.pdf

Prepared Classes
4. Brakes
B.
Calipers are free with the following limitations: 4 piston maximum, 2-piece design, 1 caliper per wheel.


Which means you can't use the 6-piston Monobloc, but the 4-piston 2-piece is legal.

- Rob
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:05 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks View Post
Please review the application list I posted above, you will see that when specifically comparing apples to apples - meaning the Stasis 6-piston and UUC 6-piston for E46 M3, these are the exact same calipers. The only difference is we offer gray and red, and Alcon has made these in red for the very first time exclusively for UUC.
ah, so you are using monobloc calipers on your E46 M3 kits?

i reviewed the application list and there is no mention in your post or on your site that you are using monobloc calipers in any of your kits...and the only pictures that i've seen you post on forums or your site are of 2 piece calipers...

Quote:
I think you might be forgetting the most important BMW racing venue...

BMW CCA Club Racing:

2008 rules: http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/stat...08+-+v13.2.pdf

Prepared Classes
4. Brakes
B.
Calipers are free with the following limitations: 4 piston maximum, 2-piece design, 1 caliper per wheel.


Which means you can't use the 6-piston Monobloc, but the 4-piston 2-piece is legal.
nice try but i'm well aware of the bmwcca cr prepared rules...that's why i'm running 2 piece 4 piston calipers at all 4 corners instead of monoblocs...

your statement was:
Quote:
In many racing classes, the rules limit upgraded brake calipers to no more than 4 pistons and no more than 5% over original diameter.
the only 2 classes that i know of that have that rule are GS and ST in koni challenge...bmwcca cr prepared class does not have this rule (rotor sizing is not specifically limited or maybe you can show me where the 5% over stock wording is?)...
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Last edited by dmwhite; 03-06-2008 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:28 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by dmwhite View Post
ah, so you are using monobloc calipers on your E46 M3 kits?

i reviewed the application list and there is no mention in your post or on your site that you are using monobloc calipers...and the only pictures that i've seen you post on forums or your site are of 2 piece calipers...
Yes! The E46 M3 application will have the choice of 4-piston or 6-piston Monobloc.

They're not listed on the website yet because they are not available at this time... about another week. Magazine advertising has caught up with us, the 6-piston kits are listed in Roundel and Bimmer.

But I was referring to the list I posted in this thread comparing the systems:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...1&postcount=29



Quote:
Originally Posted by dmwhite View Post
nice try but i'm well aware of the bmwcca cr prepared rules...that's why i'm running 2 piece 4 piston calipers at all 4 corners instead of monoblocs...

your statement was:

In many racing classes, the rules limit upgraded brake calipers to no more than 4 pistons and no more than 5% over original diameter.


the only 2 classes that i know of that have that rule are GS and ST in koni challenge...bmwcca cr prepared class does not have this rule (rotor sizing is not specifically limited or maybe you can show me where the 5% over stock wording is?)...
Okay... you quoted a sentence showing two parameters, and both are accurate. Some classes, as you listed, have both and some have one. Your request for confirmation was obfuscated by insufficient clarity.

- Rob

Last edited by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks; 03-06-2008 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:32 AM   #36
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Your request for confirmation was obfuscated by insufficient clarity.


Hall of Fame line right there. Its going in the signature.

"But baby, your request for confirmation was obfuscated by insufficient clarity."

PERFECT! Just PERFECT.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:54 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks View Post
Okay... you quoted a sentence showing two parameters, and both are accurate. Some classes, as you listed, have both and some have one.
ah...when i see a statement or rule with "and" in it, i take that to mean that all parameters must be true (not just one or more)...

maybe your statement should have read: In many racing classes, the rules limit upgraded brake calipers to no more than 4 pistons and/or no more than 5% over original diameter. - that would have widened the scope to more than 2 race classes

and since we're being picky, maybe the wording should have been clarified even further since i've never seen calipers limited to 5% over the original diameter, only brake rotors. maybe this wording would have been better- In many racing classes, the rules limit upgraded brake calipers to no more than 4 pistons and/or rotors to be no more than 5% over original diameter.

take care
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:04 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by dmwhite View Post
ah...when i see a statement or rule with "and" in it, i take that to mean that all parameters must be true (not just one or more)...

maybe your statement should have read: In many racing classes, the rules limit upgraded brake calipers to no more than 4 pistons and/or no more than 5% over original diameter. - that would have widened the scope to more than 2 race classes

and since we're being picky, maybe the wording should have been clarified even further since i've never seen calipers limited to 5% over the original diameter, only brake rotors. maybe this wording would have been better- In many racing classes, the rules limit upgraded brake calipers to no more than 4 pistons and/or rotors to be no more than 5% over original diameter.

take care
You, sir, are a true litterateur, the epitome of a wordslinger savant. I salute your superior syntactical dexterity.

- Rob
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:08 AM   #39
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wish i could afford/justify buying a set
you justify it by stopping and preventing a major accident that regular brake wouldn't have prevented ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks View Post
Yes! The E46 M3 application will have the choice of 4-piston or 6-piston Monobloc.


- Rob
so E46 M3 application is monobloc 6/4 piston but the regular is 2 piece 4 piston?
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:20 AM   #40
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so E46 M3 application is monobloc 6/4 piston but the regular is 2 piece 4 piston?
Correct.

- Rob
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