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Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:35 PM   #1
Capt Crunch
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HPF turbo kit long term reliability?

Hi everyone. My old man has an E46 M3 with 50k miles. He was planning to get a GT-R but nobody will sell one near MSRP. I sent him a link to HPFs kit and he's interested.

It seems to fit the bill, comprehensive kit for stock-like result. I've done some searching and it appears that putting FI on a stock motor with high milage isn't much of a problem, however I wonder what about the longevity of the motor? For Subaru motors (which I am familiar with), going over 450 whp is a matter of when not if. Do HPF turboed cars last a reasonable amount of time? Saying "I've had my kit for 10k miles and no problems, therefor it'll last forever" isn't very convincing. Has anyone run the kit for 30, 40, 50k miles? My dad isn't a tinkerer and would not enjoy tearing his car apart more than he has to.

I am aware of the mantra "it's all in the tune." A 450 whp car can have (and pretty much requires) a stock-quality tune, I agree, but 450 whp is near double the stock power which the stock components were simply not designed for. There has to be additional wear, how much is what I asking.

Thanks everyone!
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:37 PM   #2
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the kit is too new for 50k miles
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:39 PM   #3
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way I see it, Is if your compression is fine in ALL 6 cylinders then you should be fine.
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:39 PM   #4
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the kit is too new for 50k miles
What about 30k? I remember seeing the kit at least a year ago, and maybe there is some poor bastard that's got a long commute.
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:18 PM   #5
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What about 30k? I remember seeing the kit at least a year ago, and maybe there is some poor bastard that's got a long commute.
I doubt it, but there are enough FI S54's to kindof answer the question.

It will wear out the rings eventually. The S54 is high compression and has an efficient head, the rings are getting put under more stress because of the extra boost and will wear out faster (hotter temps don't really help).

How much faster will depend on more than just mileage, if you drive out of boost more of the time there won't be much effect, if you only drag race the car the motor will be shot pretty quick.

Any FI beyond 5 psi on any motor (unless FI stock) should be prepared for a rebuild at some point, even if just hone and new rings, the teardown is the $$.
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:22 PM   #6
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I doubt it, but there are enough FI S54's to kindof answer the question.

It will wear out the rings eventually. The S54 is high compression and has an efficient head, the rings are getting put under more stress because of the extra boost and will wear out faster (hotter temps don't really help).

How much faster will depend on more than just mileage, if you drive out of boost more of the time there won't be much effect, if you only drag race the car the motor will be shot pretty quick.

Any FI beyond 5 psi on any motor (unless FI stock) should be prepared for a rebuild at some point, even if just hone and new rings, the teardown is the $$.
What do you think if you only run 104octane? Will that increase the longevity of the motor?
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Old 06-26-2008, 07:22 PM   #7
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What do you think if you only run 104octane? Will that increase the longevity of the motor?
You tell me, you've had your car boosted a lot longer than most.

I just know Saintly and the Australian guy who did the custom turbo both said there compression had started to fall showing ring failure.

My guess however would be octane of the fuel would just let you make more power because of more advanced ignition and have relatively little impact on the rings unless theres a bad tune on the car.
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Old 06-26-2008, 08:12 PM   #8
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Running 104 octane on a 91 tune won't make any difference on ring wear. It's the amount of torque (well, cylinder pressures to be exact) that puts a larger strain on the rings.

I used to tune turbo Hondas, and the road racing cars I've done, stock rings last about 2 racing seasons before they start blowing through. Street cars that don't see the track easily last 5+ years before we start seeing blowby. On a S54? Who knows... I've seen local S/C S54s blow up from just street use, and some that last forever. Not enough data to make a solid conclusion.

I'm expecting my Stage 2 HPF to last 2 years of hard driving before the rings start to wear out. At that point, I'll go for a stage 3 build (or if I'm itchin' for more power hehe). That's a mix of track use, and back highway runs through the mountains.

The Hondas I've tuned with simple rod and piston upgrades with good rings lasts pretty much forever, even the race cars.
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Old 06-26-2008, 08:53 PM   #9
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Look, if you're going to pay to play the game.... then make sure budget is unlimited because down the road something will happen.

The HPF kit seems reliable, but will not last forever. Eventually it'll need an rebuilt and maintenance like any other kit. The HPF is just better overall though.
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Old 06-26-2008, 09:59 PM   #10
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There are no long term data yet. By the time there are, the E46 M3 wil not be a desirable car to turbocharge.

My opinion is that the HPF kit is a great option. The worse thing that can happen is you pop and engine. The cost of a rebuild (you would then have the option to rebuild with low compression pistons ie HPF Stage 3) would still be a lot cheaper than selling and buying a new GTR.
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:59 PM   #11
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When HPF tuned for stage 2 with the methanol injection they had EGT sensors on every cylinder to ensure even distribution of Methanol. With that much care taken over every detail you can be sure the rest of the tune is just about perfect. This means you can be sure it is running very smoothly with no detonation or over heating due to poor mixtures or bad ignition timing so I think you might be surprised how long the entire drivetrain might last when things are done right. Heck I turboed a Civic with a pressure switch and a cold start injector for more fuel under boost LOL!!! I got almost a year of driving it like I stole it at 12 psi before splitting the cylinder liner from top to bottom.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:08 PM   #12
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I know I haven't put a lot of miles on the car. Maybe 5000. But I did track the car at every opportunity I had. Check out this post for some of the things I put the car through.http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=587087
Hope it helps.

Fabio.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:11 PM   #13
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I think Jessie and Keven have both put over 20k on their kits?
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:26 PM   #14
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I put a lil over 20,000 miles since the install and still going
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:15 AM   #15
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The HPF kit has shown to be a great kit and they are holding up very nicely. It seems the rings will have to be replaced at some point, but it is unknown when or if ever. The other thing to 'consider' about the kit is that you (as of the last time I checked) always have a check engine light on. It is more of an 'inconvenience' then anything else, but something to bear in mind. Good luck and I am sure he will be more then happy with the HPF kit (or any other FI like AA supercharger)
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:29 PM   #16
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No Rob, Kevin def has me beat on miles, But im at about 13k right now, ive done a 2000 mile road trip twice wa to tx and back, road tripped with you all to santa barbara for bimmerfest which was 900 miles, then drove from there back to tx which was 1500 miles. no problems what so ever even on those long road trips. The kit however makes them ALOT more fun!!! I do daily drive my car every day and im in TX right now and its above 100 degree's for the last 2 months, pretty shitty. but car runs at normal temp.
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:32 PM   #17
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I think he told me they had a HPF car with 100k on it....Ive got 60k miles and i'm going to do it.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:41 PM   #18
nek0
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Bump any one have any feed back now that the kits been on the market much longer
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:53 AM   #19
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derek has over a million miles with the hpf kit
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:55 AM   #20
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Bump any one have any feed back now that the kits been on the market much longer
They are well engineered kits and I know of plenty of people with 20k miles on their kits.. but with anything this highly modified your mileage may vary (pardon the pun).
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