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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 07-30-2008, 11:31 PM   #1
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Post The future of M: BMW X5, X6 and less




The CEO of BMW M GmbH, Ludwig Willisch, spilled his guts to Auto-Motor-und-Sport in a recent interview about the future of BMW's high-performance M division. The news was good, bad, and downright dumbfounding. For the good, Willish mentioned that future M-models will include high-revving turbocharged engines, and offer ceramic brakes. The bad news is that there will be no E91 M3 Touring, E92 M3 CSL, or M1 Concept. Apparently, BMW doesn't feel there is enough of a market to support those vehicles. The perplexing news is that BMW is currently working on M-versions of the X5 and X6 (apparently to answer a question that enthusiasts have yet to ask). While we cannot control the electrochemical signals being sent between neurons within BMW's think tank, we can continue to hope that BMW doesn't dilute the M-brand the way Mercedes-Benz has with AMG.
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:07 AM   #2
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I thought the M brand was all about NA engines, not turbos
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:50 AM   #3
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I thought the M brand was all about NA engines, not turbos
They were, but more than anything they've been about racing technology. More and more vehicles are racing with forced induction (TDI for example). To add to it, I think that BMW is seeing what tuners like Dinan, Active Autowerke, and HPF are doing to BMWs, and seeing that there is a great desire for FI (both turbochargers and superchargers) from owners. Dinan has produced more FI BMWs than any other company worldwide, and they've been quite successful at it. BMW has to have taken notice of all the tuners. This is just my theory, though.

Also, with the current horsepower war, BMW needs to go FI in order to stay in the game. AMG and Audi all seem to be about HP numbers, whereas BMW goes for a more rounded capability. I just hope they don't sacrifice the handling for power.

All in all, I'm happy with the way ///M is going. There was lots of hype surrounding the new CSL, and I'm sad to hear that it's not going to come to fruition. BMW will regret that one, as I hope they regret not bringing the 1 series hatch to the US. I would hope that they continue to keep some cars NA. There's been talk for a while about a Turbo or S/C M5, and we've all seen the pictures. I think that a platform like that would be better for NA while something like the M Coupe/Roadster is directed more towards FI. BMW should also really consider doing a 135M project with upgraded software and components, or else an FI engine like the M Coupe possibility.
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:02 AM   #4
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I also agree. I think M is doing the right thing. It does not matter if a motor is NA or FI, what matters is the quality of the motor. With rising gas prices and emission regualations world wide, they can not keep raising the displacement and adding cylinders as competators release cars with higher power.

On the future models, I do hope that the X5 and X6 are not marketed as M models, but just built by them kind of like the old 4.8 and 4.8is's. About the new CSL, i still feel it is a reality. I am pretty sure it wont be called CSL, and that is why he keeps denying it. Every model M has had a special edition model, e30 Evo, e36 LTW and GTR, E46 GTR and CSL, so I am pretty sure they will relase a special edition e9+. About the M1 I hope they do come out with a R8 fighter,

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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
They were, but more than anything they've been about racing technology. More and more vehicles are racing with forced induction (TDI for example). To add to it, I think that BMW is seeing what tuners like Dinan, Active Autowerke, and HPF are doing to BMWs, and seeing that there is a great desire for FI (both turbochargers and superchargers) from owners. Dinan has produced more FI BMWs than any other company worldwide, and they've been quite successful at it. BMW has to have taken notice of all the tuners. This is just my theory, though.

Also, with the current horsepower war, BMW needs to go FI in order to stay in the game. AMG and Audi all seem to be about HP numbers, whereas BMW goes for a more rounded capability. I just hope they don't sacrifice the handling for power.

All in all, I'm happy with the way ///M is going. There was lots of hype surrounding the new CSL, and I'm sad to hear that it's not going to come to fruition. BMW will regret that one, as I hope they regret not bringing the 1 series hatch to the US.
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:07 AM   #5
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M hi-revving N/A engine =

M hi-revving turbocharged engine =

Currently owning an N54 powered car, I believe M can pump out a powerful, efficient and responsive engine with minimal turbo lag. Let's just hope, as stated above, they don't compromise the balance that makes M cars so satisfying to drive.
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:08 AM   #6
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:21 AM   #7
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Can't wait to see how this turns out?
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Old 07-31-2008, 05:52 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by M3LTDOWN View Post
M hi-revving N/A engine =

M hi-revving turbocharged engine =

Currently owning an N54 powered car, I believe M can pump out a powerful, efficient and responsive engine with minimal turbo lag. Let's just hope, as stated above, they don't compromise the balance that makes M cars so satisfying to drive.
They have already. Sit in an E30 M3, then into an E92 M3
The last thing they did right was the E46 CSL.

And before I start getting flamed (again): I agree that they are a profit searching company like every other is too, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with what they are doing/planning.
I'd rather prefer seeing a 1t lightweight M3 again instead of a 1.6t walrus that needs the 100% extra power to compromise it's heaviness.

What other hope would there be? Going the Audi route and releasing even sportier versions? Audi S = BMW M ; Audi RS = BMW RM?
It sued to be different: The Audi S models would compete against the sport versions of the standard BMW models. Then the RS versions would go against the BMW M's.

I am really wondering if BMW is just trying to compete with others in the same market, looking to win the same customers, or actually doing it like they used to, and making more sport-oriented cars for the hobby enthusiast that loves driving spirited. Not saying it isn't possible with the new models, but it's just become so much different of what it used to be. I wonder if BMW ever asked themselves how many M3 lovers would now rather get a 911 Carrera instead of the E92M just because of the plain drivability.
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by assdon View Post



The CEO of BMW M GmbH, Ludwig Willisch, spilled his guts to Auto-Motor-und-Sport in a recent interview about the future of BMW's high-performance M division. The news was good, bad, and downright dumbfounding. For the good, Willish mentioned that future M-models will include high-revving turbocharged engines, and offer ceramic brakes. The bad news is that there will be no E91 M3 Touring, E92 M3 CSL, or M1 Concept. Apparently, BMW doesn't feel there is enough of a market to support those vehicles. The perplexing news is that BMW is currently working on M-versions of the X5 and X6 (apparently to answer a question that enthusiasts have yet to ask). While we cannot control the electrochemical signals being sent between neurons within BMW's think tank, we can continue to hope that BMW doesn't dilute the M-brand the way Mercedes-Benz has with AMG.

AMG is by no means diluted let me tell you that right now.. I´ve driven all these guys : CLS 63, C63, M3 and M3 DCT and there is no doubt that MB AMG has come soo close to lashing BMWs new M3 just by brute force ! BUT the M3 still holds the advantage of being the most precise car to drive ... for the moment.
Competition is not sleeping

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I thought the M brand was all about NA engines, not turbos
This will change, right now they´re even looking into Hybrid tech on F1 Racing cars !!
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:42 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Boosted_ZHP View Post
I also agree. I think M is doing the right thing. It does not matter if a motor is NA or FI, what matters is the quality of the motor. With rising gas prices and emission regualations world wide, they can not keep raising the displacement and adding cylinders as competators release cars with higher power.

On the future models, I do hope that the X5 and X6 are not marketed as M models, but just built by them kind of like the old 4.8 and 4.8is's. About the new CSL, i still feel it is a reality. I am pretty sure it wont be called CSL, and that is why he keeps denying it. Every model M has had a special edition model, e30 Evo, e36 LTW and GTR, E46 GTR and CSL, so I am pretty sure they will relase a special edition e9+. About the M1 I hope they do come out with a R8 fighter,
No CSL : Someone well knows how to read between the lines here

As for the M1 not coming

I have said nothing, not before and not later and I have in fact said less than nothing right now..
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Old 07-31-2008, 04:23 PM   #11
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The X5 and X6 versions won't necessarily be MX5, or the MX6. They will simply have large V8 twin-turbo engines put into them and will be called the X5 "5.0..." and the X6 "5.0..." . Something along those lines, you get the point. There is already an X6 mule in the testing...that is what he is referring as the M version of the X6. You can find it at e90post.com.
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:10 PM   #12
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Wat, fuk this sh!t. Well at least they kept the E92 NA...
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