The flip-side of gun ownership :-\

Originally Posted by jgrecbets

I have a question for the anti-gun people that's a really honest question. I really don't mean it with sarcasm, it's more like i would like to poll what some people think.


If sh*t were to hit the fan, who do you expect to protect you and your family?
Now I do not mean if a burglar comes into your house at night, I mean a big catastrophe... A natural disaster where people are in a panic and start looting, or a terrorist attack, or something like that. Examples that come to mind are Katrina, race riots in LA, etc.

or do you suspect that something like this won't happen?

Do you expect something like this only to happen to the US, since you have the most guns? How do you think other countries would handle the situation?

Just putting it out there.

Originally Posted by Rayce185

Do you expect something like this only to happen to the US, since you have the most guns? How do you think other countries would handle the situation?

Just putting it out there.

other countries (without guns) may be setting themselves up for disaster

When I was a little kid, 2 guys came into my house with guns. My dad was up in the middle of the night and put a bullet in one guys leg. Who knows what would have happened if he didn't do this.

All i know is I want to be entitled to live on my property in peace without anyone bothering me, and if someone was to cross the line and come on to my property to hurt me, I want to have a better defense than begging them not to hurt me.
This will increase 100x when i have wife and kids.

I think I've caught hints of this argument in this thread, but one pro-gun argument that I fail to understand is the, "if everyone had guns, gun related crime would lessen."

Our country went through a time period like that, remember the "Wild, Wild, West?" No thanks.

Originally Posted by jgrecbets

A natural disaster where people are in a panic and start looting, or a terrorist attack, or something like that. Examples that come to mind are Katrina, race riots in LA, etc.

or do you suspect that something like this won't happen?

As opposed to what the sensationalized media shows, the majority of people don't flip out when a tornado comes to town and they start looting or killing people. I was here when hurricane Katrina came to town, you know what happened? I got the fcuk out, just as most normal people did. Riots? I'd get the fcuk out. Terrorist attack? How many people started knocking off fellow Americans in NYC when the Towers fell?

I live in a world free of the fears of apocalyptic events.

Originally Posted by jgrecbets

other countries (without guns) may be setting themselves up for disaster

When I was a little kid, 2 guys came into my house with guns. My dad was up in the middle of the night and put a bullet in one guys leg. Who knows what would have happened if he didn't do this.

All i know is I want to be entitled to live on my property in peace without anyone bothering me, and if someone was to cross the line and come on to my property to hurt me, I want to have a better defense than begging them not to hurt me.
This will increase 100x when i have wife and kids.

I guess the obvious problem is how they got into the house in the first place without waking anyone up. I'd rather buy a quality security system than a bunch of guns. Or at least buy the former first.

Originally Posted by russ330

I think I've caught hints of this argument in this thread, but one pro-gun argument that I fail to understand is the, "if everyone had guns, gun related crime would lessen."

Our country went through a time period like that, remember the "Wild, Wild, West?" No thanks.



As opposed to what the sensationalized media shows, the majority of people don't flip out when a tornado comes to town and they start looting or killing people. I was here when hurricane Katrina came to town, you know what happened? I got the fcuk out, just as most normal people did. Riots? I'd get the fcuk out. Terrorist attack? How many people started knocking off fellow Americans in NYC when the Towers fell?

I live in a world free of the fears of apocalyptic events.

Ironically, most of the world still has this image of the States. And with the current pro-gun arguments, they may have all right to think so.

Originally Posted by Rayce185

I guess the obvious problem is how they got into the house in the first place without waking anyone up. I'd rather buy a quality security system than a bunch of guns. Or at least buy the former first.


Ironically, most of the world still has this image of the States. And with the current pro-gun arguments, they may have all right to think so.

They busted through the front fukin door! this was in the late 80's and nobody had alarms.

But even if you do have surveillance and an alarm, all it tells you is "someones coming for your ass"

What action do you take at that point? you see someone on the screen (assuming you're awake)... what you do? call the cops? Ive seen cops take a solid 10 minutes to come to peoples houses when alarms ring.. common response is "well then your cops suck" ... exactly!!! I don't want to have to rely on someone else for my family's security? I want to be the cop in my house.

Originally Posted by russ330

I think I've caught hints of this argument in this thread, but one pro-gun argument that I fail to understand is the, "if everyone had guns, gun related crime would lessen."

"A well armed society is a polite society.” - Robert A. Heinlein

You don't understand it because you are not considering it from the viewpoint of someone who wishes to do harm to another person.

Our country went through a time period like that, remember the "Wild, Wild, West?" No thanks.

A well armed populous does not necessarily equal marshal law.

But further, the police are not your friends - they are not required to protect you. That wording on their cars is nonsense. And if you do trust them, when seconds matter, the police are only minutes away.

Nobody cares about your personal protection like you do. If you are okay with taking your chances with the police, that's fine. Just don't infringe my ability to protect myself.

As opposed to what the sensationalized media shows, the majority of people don't flip out when a tornado comes to town and they start looting or killing people. I was here when hurricane Katrina came to town, you know what happened? I got the fcuk out, just as most normal people did. Riots? I'd get the fcuk out. Terrorist attack? How many people started knocking off fellow Americans in NYC when the Towers fell?

I live in a world free of the fears of apocalyptic events.

Well, there's one very real situation, described below. You might recognize it.

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."


The government needs to keep its corrupt laws away from law abiding citizens' guns. The government should live in constant fear of the populous - not the other way around. As our declaration of independence showed, the final check and balance to a government's power is the populous' ability to defend itself.

Originally Posted by jgrecbets

They busted through the front fukin door! this was in the late 80's and nobody had alarms.

But even if you do have surveillance and an alarm, all it tells you is "someones coming for your ass"

What action do you take at that point? you see someone on the screen (assuming you're awake)... what you do? call the cops? Ive seen cops take a solid 10 minutes to come to peoples houses when alarms ring.. common response is "well then your cops suck" ... exactly!!! I don't want to have to rely on someone else for my family's security? I want to be the cop in my house.

Security system as in reinforced doors and locks, plus an alarm. But I get your point.

I just find it weird that gun ownership is taken as a natural response for living in the US. There are not many other countries in the 1st world that do it this way, but the rate of house raiding must also be alarmingly high. Obviously you can't do much about limiting the people willing to do such crimes, but I would rather invest money into securing my house before buying another gun.

I mean: The current "policy" has been working good so far, you could say: Buy gun, people break in, shoot thief. Or at least that's how I am seeing this picture.
How about stopping the thief from coming in in the first place? I would hate having to live with the bad taste of someone potentially violent being able to break into my home and having to use a gun, possibly killing someone.

Originally Posted by dwass325

"A well armed society is a polite society.” - Robert A. Heinlein

You don't understand it because you are not considering it from the viewpoint of someone who wishes to do harm to another person.



A well armed populous does not necessarily equal marshal law.

But further, the police are not your friends - they are not required to protect you. That wording on their cars is nonsense. And if you do trust them, when seconds matter, the police are only minutes away.

Nobody cares about your personal protection like you do. If you are okay with taking your chances with the police, that's fine. Just don't infringe my ability to protect myself.



Well, there's one very real situation, described below. You might recognize it.

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."


The government needs to keep its corrupt laws away from law abiding citizens' guns. The government should live in constant fear of the populous - not the other way around. As our declaration of independence showed, the final check and balance to a government's power is the populous' ability to defend itself.

Bud, we just have a polar opposite view of life, government, and society. I appreciate your well thought out and respectful response, even if I see the world differently.

Originally Posted by russ330

Bud, we just have a polar opposite view of life, government, and society. I appreciate your well thought out and respectful response, even if I see the world differently.

You're from the south, though... I thought you were all required to love guns down there?

Originally Posted by dwass325

You're from the south, though... I thought you were all required to love guns down there?

LOL. I was born and raised in Germany (might explain a thing or two ), I just happen to live in MS 'cause that's where work sends me.

Originally Posted by dwass325

You're from the south, though... I thought you were all required to love guns down there?

We are, but some of us choose to love them responsibly.

Originally Posted by JonJon

Banning guns in an effort to reduce murders makes as much sense as attempting to remove all racism by trying to eliminate mean people.

We want the same result, but you anti-gun people are fighting the wrong battle here.

If guns didnt exist, the dude wouldve killed them with a bomb or knife.

Wanna ban fertilizer, styrofoam, gasoline and kitchen knives?

Who said anything about banning guns?

Originally Posted by JonJon

This entire thread

You're the only person who's mentioned banning weapons other than post #2 which from my understanding was "sarcasm."



So if by "entire thread," you mean you... then I agree.

Fail.

Originally Posted by jgrecbets

If sh*t were to hit the fan, who do you expect to protect you and your family?
Now I do not mean if a burglar comes into your house at night, I mean a big catastrophe... A natural disaster where people are in a panic and start looting, or a terrorist attack, or something like that. Examples that come to mind are Katrina, race riots in LA, etc.

or do you suspect that something like this won't happen?

Interesting. I have a question for you, too: is the only reason why you own weapons (as I assume you do) to hedge the risk of a natural disaster which will cause people to start looting?

Originally Posted by Camicia

Interesting. I have a question for you, too: is the only reason why you own weapons (as I assume you do) to hedge the risk of a natural disaster which will cause people to start looting?

Absolutely not... I hunt and think theyre a fun hobby as well.

However, I do want to be prepared if something were to happen, even if the chances are 1 in a billion. If someone pentrated my house, like a serial killer or something, robbers, sick fuks, if we ever had a war on the homefront, etc.

Originally Posted by jgrecbets

Absolutely not... I hunt and think theyre a fun hobby as well.

However, I do want to be prepared if something were to happen, even if the chances are 1 in a billion. If someone pentrated my house, like a serial killer or something, robbers, sick fuks, if we ever had a war on the homefront, etc.

Violent crimes are usually committed by someone you know. You won't see it coming :-\

... yet I'd hate to see it coming and think o fuk, i'm helpless.

New England Journal of Medicine

Myth: A gun in the home increases personal safety.

Fact: A gun in the home make homicide 2.7 times more likely.

Keeping a gun in the home carries a murder risk 2.7 times greater than not keeping one, according to a study by Arthur Kellermann. The National Rifle Association has fiercely attacked this study, but it remains valid despite its criticisms. The study found that people are 21 times more likely to be killed by someone they know than a stranger breaking into the house. Half of the murders were over arguments or romantic triangles. The study also found that the increased murder rate in gun-owning households was entirely due to an increase in gun homicides only, not any other murder method. It further found that gun-owning households saw an increased murder risk by family or intimate acquaintances, not by strangers or non-intimate acquaintances. The most straightforward explanation is that the presence of a gun increases the possibility that a normal family fight or drinking binge will become deadly. No other explanation fits the above facts.


Having a highly intelligent populous is much more dangerous to a government than owning guns ever will be. There's a reason the first people controlled, threatened, rounded up, jailed, and murdered are the well educated. Not the hillbillies shooting AK's at Busch Light cans in their backyard.

Originally Posted by 217Bimmer

New England Journal of Medicine

Myth: A gun in the home increases personal safety.

Fact: A gun in the home make homicide 2.7 times more likely.

Keeping a gun in the home carries a murder risk 2.7 times greater than not keeping one, according to a study by Arthur Kellermann. The National Rifle Association has fiercely attacked this study, but it remains valid despite its criticisms. The study found that people are 21 times more likely to be killed by someone they know than a stranger breaking into the house. Half of the murders were over arguments or romantic triangles. The study also found that the increased murder rate in gun-owning households was entirely due to an increase in gun homicides only, not any other murder method. It further found that gun-owning households saw an increased murder risk by family or intimate acquaintances, not by strangers or non-intimate acquaintances. The most straightforward explanation is that the presence of a gun increases the possibility that a normal family fight or drinking binge will become deadly. No other explanation fits the above facts.


Having a highly intelligent populous is much more dangerous to a government than owning guns ever will be. There's a reason the first people controlled, threatened, rounded up, jailed, and murdered are the well educated. Not the hillbillies shooting AK's at Busch Light cans in their backyard.

Shhh, you're conspiring against your beloved government with a statement like that