Give me a scenario where unemployment goes down and consumer spending heats up?

As we all know, times are tough in America. Sure we are better off than most all countries, but things are different now than a few years ago. Jobs are harder to find, which in turn curbs consumer spending. This is a huge deal considering 70% of the economy is based on the consumer. Even with government programs such as cash for clunkers ( an insanely good deal) auto sales are still not where they should be, where they would catch up with supply.

Recessions are nothing new, but what is going to get us out of this? I hear people talk about "alternative energy", saving the economy. Show me an alternative energy company that is making money without government subsidies, the business model does not work yet. I am sure one day oil will be something of the past, but lets get real, that is not for a very long time. Oil is only going to go up, China is needing more and increasing demand, along with other countries that want the "American lifestyle."

Back in the day innovation and war would save our economy. Henry Ford brings out the automobile, everyone in America has a job working in the auto industry, everything is all good. The major "innovations" that are being created in this day and age are not ones that are labor intensive, they do not create jobs for the masses. If one were to come along I am sure the labor would be outsourced for cheaper anyway. The government is dumping a lot of money into the economy and it is not working, imagine if they were not doing these first time home buyer credits and cash for clunker type programs?

Consumer credit was easily accessible for the past few decades, which kept our consumer based economy going.

So what is going to happen that is going to change all of this?

If we start selling 70" plasmas

2nd

yesterday

My thoughts exactly...

didnt read.

to answer your thread title: gaming sector

Originally Posted by Parish_Rane

If we start selling 70" plasmas

On topic: Quit b!tching. 90% of us still have jobs.

http://www.sunedison.com/

some are in your backyard http://www.uni-solar.com/

and for your information, the consumer spending that has fueled the prosperous economy was built upon credit. that is not real, sustainable growth.

Originally Posted by 217Bimmer

http://www.sunedison.com/

some are in your backyard http://www.uni-solar.com/

and for your information, the consumer spending that has fueled the prosperous economy was built upon credit. that is not real, sustainable growth.

Solar panels will not save our economy or even take .0001% of the market share from any oil company any time soon.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

As we all know, times are tough in America. Sure we are better off than most all countries, but things are different now than a few years ago. Jobs are harder to find, which in turn curbs consumer spending. This is a huge deal considering 70% of the economy is based on the consumer. Even with government programs such as cash for clunkers ( an insanely good deal) auto sales are still not where they should be, where they would catch up with supply.

Actually, cash for clunkers was detrimental to auto sales. While it did boost them in the short run, it was primarily those who were looking to buy a new car soon anyway. In other words, had the incentive not been there, they still would have likely bought a car... they just would have done so at a more reasonable pricetag and, the car they traded in could have been resold. Instead, the cars people brought in were scrapped in a fashion where even junk yards can't profit off their engines. Long story short, few bought cars who otherwise would not have, all the cars sold were at a loss, and the secondary auto market was shot in the foot by taking cars off the lot.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

Recessions are nothing new, but what is going to get us out of this? I hear people talk about "alternative energy", saving the economy. Show me an alternative energy company that is making money without government subsidies, the business model does not work yet. I am sure one day oil will be something of the past, but lets get real, that is not for a very long time. Oil is only going to go up, China is needing more and increasing demand, along with other countries that want the "American lifestyle."

What is going to get us out of a recession? Well, history would tell us that we need to cut government spending, tighten consumer's belts, and raise the value of our capital while providing incentives for small and mid sized businesses. We pretty much are doing exactly the opposite.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

Back in the day innovation and war would save our economy.

Well, yes and no. The war certainly saved us but you can't really claim that a war would save our economy... there was no way to predict, of course, how it would have turned out.

That said, the restoration done to spur us out of the great depression was somewhat similar to that of the obama administration. The only difference was that, in the time, money was allocated on infrastructure which actually was infinitely important for our commercial success from the war. Without the factories, roads, ports, and other built up infrastructure, we would not have been able to profit off the sales and movement of munitions and gear. While this built a great infrastructure, it also ran up a ton of debt which, were it not for the reparations paid after the war to the USA, would have been on the backs of those who were employed by big government.

Iraq certainly isn't going to build our economy.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

Henry Ford brings out the automobile, everyone in America has a job working in the auto industry, everything is all good. The major "innovations" that are being created in this day and age are not ones that are labor intensive, they do not create jobs for the masses.

Well, yes and no. They create jobs for the masses but the wages paid by those positions (in lower end white collar jobs), are not enough to put a consumer in a position where they are beneficial to the economy.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

If one were to come along I am sure the labor would be outsourced for cheaper anyway. The government is dumping a lot of money into the economy and it is not working, imagine if they were not doing these first time home buyer credits and cash for clunker type programs?

That's exactly the problem. Any stability and growth derived from the spending is ultimately futile as it will wain when the capital government injection ceases and, at the end of the day, it will lead to tons of debt.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

Consumer credit was easily accessible for the past few decades, which kept our consumer based economy going.

So what is going to happen that is going to change all of this?

Well this is, in and of itself, a huge problem with our society. There is no real money. So few own their homes, own their cars, or even can pay for the food on their table. Most are paying off things they consumed months ago and are paying off expenses from last month with another credit card they won't address for another 6 months. The consumer society we were living in during the economic bubble is no longer sustainable and, as a result, we see a downward spiral in the economy.

But, my views are spurred on by a hateful FOX news who is just perpetuating lies and is rewriting history to make their case. Furthermore, as I disagree by the current spend spend mentality, I'm a racist, elitist, sexist, hater.

PS: Gibbs announced today that we have gained 650k jobs as a result of the stimulus... let's just ignore all those lost and the fact that unemployment went far above the ceiling they promised if allowed to pass the stimulus. And, despite it's "success", congress is pushing a second stimulus through.. Given "the success of the stimulus and the great current shape of the economy", isn't it odd to push for another? If you ask me, interest groups have figured out how to literally pocket citizen's money through direct transfer of wealth. And to think our kids are going to pay for the mistakes of the current f*king administration

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

Solar panels will not save our economy or even take .0001% of the market share from any oil company any time soon.

Where'd you get your information from, punk
You think that you can front when revelation comes?

Originally Posted by 2000_328CI

Actually, cash for clunkers was detrimental to auto sales. While it did boost them in the short run, it was primarily those who were looking to buy a new car soon anyway. In other words, had the incentive not been there, they still would have likely bought a car... they just would have done so at a more reasonable pricetag and, the car they traded in could have been resold. Instead, the cars people brought in were scrapped in a fashion where even junk yards can't profit off their engines. Long story short, few bought cars who otherwise would not have, all the cars sold were at a loss, and the secondary auto market was shot in the foot by taking cars off the lot.

What is going to get us out of a recession? Well, history would tell us that we need to cut government spending, tighten consumer's belts, and raise the value of our capital while providing incentives for small and mid sized businesses. We pretty much are doing exactly the opposite.

Well, yes and no. The war certainly saved us but you can't really claim that a war would save our economy... there was no way to predict, of course, how it would have turned out.

That said, the restoration done to spur us out of the great depression was somewhat similar to that of the obama administration. The only difference was that, in the time, money was allocated on infrastructure which actually was infinitely important for our commercial success from the war. Without the factories, roads, ports, and other built up infrastructure, we would not have been able to profit off the sales and movement of munitions and gear. While this built a great infrastructure, it also ran up a ton of debt which, were it not for the reparations paid after the war to the USA, would have been on the backs of those who were employed by big government.

Iraq certainly isn't going to build our economy.

Well, yes and no. They create jobs for the masses but the wages paid by those positions (in lower end white collar jobs), are not enough to put a consumer in a position where they are beneficial to the economy.


That's exactly the problem. Any stability and growth derived from the spending is ultimately futile as it will wain when the capital government injection ceases and, at the end of the day, it will lead to tons of debt.

Well this is, in and of itself, a huge problem with our society. There is no real money. So few own their homes, own their cars, or even can pay for the food on their table. Most are paying off things they consumed months ago and are paying off expenses from last month with another credit card they won't address for another 6 months. The consumer society we were living in during the economic bubble is no longer sustainable and, as a result, we see a downward spiral in the economy.

But, my views are spurred on by a hateful FOX news who is just perpetuating lies and is rewriting history to make their case. Furthermore, as I disagree by the current spend spend mentality, I'm a racist, elitist, sexist, hater.

PS: Gibbs announced today that we have gained 650k jobs as a result of the stimulus... let's just ignore all those lost and the fact that unemployment went far above the ceiling they promised if allowed to pass the stimulus. And, despite it's "success", congress is pushing a second stimulus through.. Given "the success of the stimulus and the great current shape of the economy", isn't it odd to push for another? If you ask me, interest groups have figured out how to literally pocket citizen's money through direct transfer of wealth. And to think our kids are going to pay for the mistakes of the current f*king administration

Thank you taking my post seriously, i enjoyed reading your comments.

I take it you are a capitalist, as am I. However I am very concerned about the way things are currently going. If you were to give the statistics of the wealth distribution of America to an economist, without telling him it was the US stats, he would say we live in a third world country. I am a big believer in business, the wealthier people in this country own businesses, which create jobs, why should they be taxed more?

The top 10% of families owns around 71% of the nations capital, while the bottom 40% own less than 1%. The rich are getting richer at an alarming rate, while the poor get poorer. I have nothing against this, these people have worked hard and use there money to make more money, the American dream. At this rate would if one day the top 1% own 99% of everything. I understand in capitalism someone has to lose, and they lose badly. I am cool with, I just don't want the numbers to be insane on the difference between the losers and the winners.

I am starting to believe that the gov may be pushing minor "socialist" experiments on us because they know that the middle class is vanishing. I am not an expert, just a 22 year old with an internet connection and even I can see things are not right.

I like what the Republican party has to say about this situation. I would start voting Republican as soon as they get rid of there old school social beliefs.

The Libertarian party is the way to go.

And your correct on people spending money they do not have. I just ran down a few of my friends in my head and how they spend money to have nice clothes, apple computers, high end vodka on the weekends. Student loans and credit cards, that can not end good. My buddy owns a liquor store and he always tells me how no one pays cash, all credit all day.

1998

1985

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

Thank you taking my post seriously, i enjoyed reading your comments.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

I take it you are a capitalist, as am I.

Well, I certainly believe in the free market and view regulation of it as, often times, more probelmatic than helpful. Just look at the housing market, it's rise in the 90s and it's huge fall in the last year. Almost entirely due to restrictions placed on the market and the forcing of banks to offer "sub prime loans"... i repeat... FORCING

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

However I am very concerned about the way things are currently going.

You're not alone

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

TIf you were to give the statistics of the wealth distribution of America to an economist, without telling him it was the US stats, he would say we live in a third world country.

Don't know about that one man.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

I am a big believer in business, the wealthier people in this country own businesses, which create jobs, why should they be taxed more?

Because the poor have nothing to be taxed. If you were to implement a flat tax, government returns would be tiny and they would still have to cover massive costs. That said, I am all for lowering those costs, not increasing them with nonsense like this absurd healthcare overhaul, the billions given out as a "stimulus", and the bailouts of companies with prehistoric business models that were bound to fall.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

The top 10% of families owns around 71% of the nations capital, while the bottom 40% own less than 1%. The rich are getting richer at an alarming rate, while the poor get poorer. I have nothing against this, these people have worked hard and use there money to make more money, the American dream. At this rate would if one day the top 1% own 99% of everything. I understand in capitalism someone has to lose, and they lose badly. I am cool with, I just don't want the numbers to be insane on the difference between the losers and the winners.

Winners and losers = good thing

Risk should be rewarded as should intelligence and business wit.

That said, I don't think any economy where the wealth is divided up as you suggest above would be productive. When nobody can buy anything except a select few, you're bound for economic setbacks..

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

I am starting to believe that the gov may be pushing minor "socialist" experiments on us because they know that the middle class is vanishing.

The government isn't pushing any experiments. They are pushing a liberal agenda which believes in socialistic principles and think that the country will be a better place with the government having more control over your wages, how they compare to everyone in your neighborhood, and what you do with those wages.

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

I like what the Republican party has to say about this situation. I would start voting Republican as soon as they get rid of there old school social beliefs.

This is ridiculous. In the words of Carvell, it's the economy stupid. If you are going to side with one set of issues to support, you should favor going with the economy, the driving factor of our lives, not your social beliefs. And, for what it's worth, while there are a lot of religious nuts in the right wing, there are also a ton of socially progressive individuals who are all for taking care of our planet, in favor of a woman's choice to an abortion, and other "Traditionally liberal" views on the world. I, for one, have rather moral views on the world but am all for abortions if they will lower birth rates in the lower class, reduce teen pregnancies, etc...

Bible beaters FTL

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

The Libertarian party is the way to go.

While I agree with a lot of libertarian views on morality and other personal issues, I can't support their cause as they simply don't have enough to get someone elected. I can't help but think it's a wasted vote to support anything but the republican or democratic party. Sure this is stupid in some ways as you can always argue "well each election if they get a litttttle bit more" blah blah blah... But, realistically speaking, 5 million people voting libertarian won't change anything. 5 million more votes for either a republican or democrat could decide the presidenancy. So, why not make your vote "count"

Originally Posted by FadeToblack

And your correct on people spending money they do not have. I just ran down a few of my friends in my head and how they spend money to have nice clothes, apple computers, high end vodka on the weekends. Student loans and credit cards, that can not end good. My buddy owns a liquor store and he always tells me how no one pays cash, all credit all day.

People are stupid with their money and we have built a society that idolizes not class or character, but the size of the jewels on your watch, the engine size of your car, and the amount of bills you throw around at a strip club.