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Proper pictures of Meyle HD control arms w/ pressed-on bushings

61K views 108 replies 36 participants last post by  Mango 
#1 · (Edited)
I just finished with these. There were absolutely no decent pictures of these floating around online so if you've ever wondered exactly what these look like, wonder no more! I have the raw originals to these pics, so if you do share them, that's fine, as long as you give me credit (especially if you're a vendor) :)

They're a little rough around the edges, but I don't have BMW control arms to compare them to so my opinion is just a preliminary judgment. Also take note on how far the bushings are pressed onto the arm. The nub of the arm barely sticks out and does not protrude beyond the round bushing casing. This should give DIYers a good idea on how far these bushings should go on the control arm.

Another concern I have (non-related to quality) is that these arms aren't compatible with sport package. I saw ONE post from one dude in 2009 where he says he called Meyle and they said these would create "dangerous handling" on a sport-packaged E46. I have NO idea how that's even possible as there would be nothing different about the geometry of a sport and non-sport E46. If someone can confirm they installed these on a sport packaged vehicle, I'd feel better. (my car has Bilsteins/H&Rs anyway) By the way, these were from oembimmerparts.com for $350 shipped. I ordered Tuesday and got them the next day.

Equipment used:

Canon 5D
Canon 35-80mm lens from the 1990s ($25 on ebay) :rofl:
430EX


Onto the photos:

Photobucket host dead so linking one pic i was managed to find archived (7/22/19)

 

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#34 ·
So, longer term review of your Meyles?

Also, anyone know off hand what my options would be for a '99 328i? I'm sure I still have original CAs, but we'll see soon enough.

And, the HD bushings look remarkably similar to the OE ones. Are you sure they're solid rubber and not fluid filled? Anyone happen to cut the meyles apart?

Today there was a thread about a guy who got lemforders, but it only came with one balljoint, so I'm also curious if lemforder went through a recent design change to where its ball joints are serviceable. If so, I wonder if I could just get ball joints pressed into my control arms.

And for my final comment. That Meyle's have a metal socket to hold the metal ball, I'm not so sure that's superior to lemforder's nylon socket. Beneath this socket is another bushing pushing up, so with nylon, it seems like it'd be easier on the ball. I know it's plastic, but as it's 'integrally' slick, I wonder if this is maybe superior to metal on metal? Thoughts?
 
#36 ·
Yep. ZHP/E36 M3 and E46 M3 share all metal design. Non-M E46 came with nylon-casings for comfort and NVH isolation ONLY.

Long-term review? About 20k miles on them and all is good. Corners on rails.

The Meyles weighed in at 1.1lbs more per side than the stock non-M arms. Both with bushings still attached. Not sure where the weight increase is. Probably casting. If you can spring for it, the ZHP arms are the obvious choice. Not to say that you'd be able to tell the difference, but just knowing its OE is good enough to justify the price difference for me. The Meyles are nice units though.

And I'm positive its solid and not fluid-filled, DMAX. I believe thats one of Meyles selling points.
 
#37 ·
DAMMIT! My Meyle HD arms and bushing came prepressed, but the damn carrier isn't right and is not pressed on correctly, it is on rotated counterclockwise one too many notches :( I ordered from www.oembimmerparts.com. I don't know how the factory could mess this up. Jesus! Now am I going to ruin the bushing if I use a puller to pull it off?
 
#41 · (Edited)
Can't wait to tackle these. But with the ZHP control arms. Feels like my control arms are mounted into Folgers Coffee Cans

EDIT: Maybe Meyle HD's now? Just seen Mango flip out at Sean C on the other other thread about these
 
#50 ·
What's there to "feel"? It's a solid piece of aluminum that provides wheel location and pivotal control via solid metal balljoints and a rubber bushing at the end. Since both a functioning ZHP arm and a Meyle arm would be solid, the only variation would be the bushing. And the bushing on the ZHP arm is not unique to the ZHP. It's a known fact that the Meyle bushing is relatively solid compared to the fluid-filled OE bushing. So essentially what you are saying is that the ZHP arm (equipped with OE bushings) has a softer feel than Meyle HD (equipped with Meyle HD bushings) as the bushings are the only variable.

Unless you took two brand new sets of control arms and installed them back to back on the same vehicle, I don't believe your claims of "better feel" to be justified.

BTW, if I had ZHP arms, I'd argue the same point. I don't play favorites. If you want to argue the ZHP arms are better quality, that's fine. You may have a point. But feel? I don't think so. Again. What exactly are you "feeling"?
 
#51 ·
So I've heard the Meyle balljoint is all metal...which I guess means metal ball and socket both...and I thought I'd read that ZHP arms also have all metal balljoints...though I don't 'know' that that's true.

I know my balljoints have a metal ball in a plastic (nylon?) socket (or 'believe' I 'know' that). Anyway, the construction of the balljoint might be another factor adding to the feel of the CA in addition to the construction of the CAB.

It's discussions like this, though, that confirm for me that OE is the way to go if you want to sleep at night!

Someone should cut through all our balljoints and cabs someday! Maybe it'll be me...as I'm sure I can find a number of these old parts around my shop!
 
#53 ·
So I've heard the Meyle balljoint is all metal...which I guess means metal ball and socket both...and I thought I'd read that ZHP arms also have all metal balljoints...though I don't 'know' that that's true.

I know my balljoints have a metal ball in a plastic (nylon?) socket (or 'believe' I 'know' that). Anyway, the construction of the balljoint might be another factor adding to the feel of the CA in addition to the construction of the CAB.
It's discussions like this, though, that confirm for me that OE is the way to go if you want to sleep at night!

Someone should cut through all our balljoints and cabs someday! Maybe it'll be me...as I'm sure I can find a number of these old parts around my shop!
Right. I've said it before and said it again. Whether it's Meyle, ZHP ///M, ///M, OE non-M, the basic difference is solid vs. not solid. Period. The sportier cars (ZHP and ///M) have solid balljoints. So do the E36 non-M and ///M, AFAIK.
 
#65 ·
I just ordered these control arms and bushings from BMA Parts for $299 shipped. Think I got a good deal on these and I'm looking forward to getting them installed. I did a check of the car on the lift a few weeks ago and both the tie rods looked good... the ends looked brand new to me. Everything else looked pretty nice underneath and the subframe was in good shape (Thank God!). Car still feels solid with nearly 146k miles on it!
 
#68 ·
FWIW, control arm stiffness is a major factor when it comes to steering response. The fact that the Meyle arm weighs 1.1lbs (~15%) more than the ZHP arm indicates that it is either made from a different alloy or it's a different design, which means the stiffness is most likely not the same either. If there's a stiffness difference of a similar magnitude as the weight difference, there would very likely be a small but noticeable difference in steering. BMW has the measurement and analysis tools to optimize the stiffness/weight/performance of the arm. Meyle just has the BMW arm to copy.

Also, it's been a while since I changed them, but I'm pretty sure my original ZHP FCAB's were NOT fluid filled. They are voided, meaning it's not a solid cylindrical bushing, which helps reduce the stiffness to improve comfort.
 
#69 ·
Also, it's been a while since I changed them, but I'm pretty sure my original ZHP FCAB's were NOT fluid filled. They are voided, meaning it's not a solid cylindrical bushing, which helps reduce the stiffness to improve comfort.
I can't see ZHP-specific control arm bushings. I think the ZHP control arms and the regular control arms both use the same set of bushings (31126783376). And yes, they have some oil inside the rubber. You need to drill through them to see the oil though.
 
#70 ·
Just did my Meyle HDs today on my ZHP control arms. They do not look as far on as yours are. They lined up relatively well with the bolt holes (though required some twisting), and that end nub thing is probably just a hair farther back than I see on yours. They refuse to go any further, even after lots of coaxing with a mallet and more soapy water. Think I'm okay? Will they eventually find their way to the right place as I drive if they aren't for some reason?

Steering is nice and tight.
 
#72 ·
there is an exact measurement that these are suppose to be on. you don't need to look at someone else's photo and guess. just measure, can't be any easier than that.
 
#78 · (Edited)
I did know that, in fact I said so in the post you quoted. The E36 arms are also made of steel, not aluminum (which is significantly softer than steel). My line of thought is that aluminum deforms a lot easier than steel, and thus BMW might feel it's beneficial to go the extra step to make the stronger. Or maybe BMW felt the act of actually removing the ball joints on an aluminum arm causes too much damage due to its softness. Or it just might be that BMW feels the aluminum is soft enough that it shouldn't be kept for more then 100k miles or whatever the design life of the ball joints is.
 
#79 ·
Although the material itself is softer, there's more aluminum (bigger arms) to achieve the same strength as the steel-arm predecessors. All modern ///M and even non-///M BMWs use aluminum suspension components.

Point is there's no play in a solidly-mounted balljoint.
 
#80 · (Edited)
Well these ball joints are essentially interference fit, correct? Hence needing a 12 ton press to remove and install them. I would say it's plausible, that the aluminum deforms too much during that process to be reusable. Or maybe the number of uses is limited. Or the thermal expansion coefficients are different enough that BMW felt they were better off making them permanently attached for safety reasons, I don't know

Question: Has anyone actually tried removing the ball joints from a stock arm? I'm now reading that BMW doesn't sell replacement ball joints for the E36 M3 arms, and that people just use either Meyle or E30 ball joints instead.

Also want to note that E30 M3 arms are aluminum and also have non-replaceable ball joints

 
#94 ·
If you're going to compile all your nitpicking toward building the conclusion that Meyle HD control arms with stainless steel ball joints are less than dependable and absolutely safe, you're judgement runs against most of the forum members who use them as the replacement arms of choice. Reality check.
 
#96 · (Edited)
My judgment does run contrary to the forum members on that. I take everything repeated on the Internet with a healthy grain of salt. Many people here claim the Hankook Ventus V12 are great tires that compete with the best at a fraction of the cost; before that many people claimed the same thing about Nitto Invos. Boy were they wrong in both cases.

Heck, it wasn't that long ago that I opted for MeyleHD contol arm bushings on my old car. My experience with them was far worse than OEM; I wasn't about to trust them with control arms either. I also have many friends with older BMWs with less than favorable experiences. Restoring to lemforder / ZHP parts brought back the car I bought.

Would I take meyle components over broken OE stuff? Of course. But I'd take new ZHP arms over those any day. The ZHP arms last 100k miles on the low side; even if the Meyle's have similar reliability (something i will remain skeptical of until I see some undeniavle proof), an extra couple hundred dollars is a drop in the bucket over that period.

I don't have to accept anyone's opinion, nor does anyone have to accept mine. But I will openly discuss opinions on a forum since that's what forums are for. And I will call out anyone who states misleading info, like claiming that meyle and ZHP arms are the same. It wouldn't be incorrect to say they're designed similarly, and I could even accept someone saying that you'll get similar use out of them. But saying they're the same is factually wrong. That implies tha meyle is an OEM for BMW, which they're not.

Do Meyle control arms function just as well as the ZHP arms with similar reliability? Maybe. The point is, I don't know. If I don't know what to expect, then I prefer to stick with the part that came OE on the car since I know what to expect out of those. Control arms are relatively simple, but there are still plenty of places where things can go wrong -- otherwise we'd have companies like Hamburg Technic making OE quality arms. Maybe the ball joints aren't made to withstand the same load as OE, maybe the casting process is inferior, maybe they use an inferior grade metal, maybe design compromises had to be made to make the control arms aluminum with removable ball joints. I don't know. There are too many unknowns for me to accept the risk, especially with a company like Meyle which has a less than stellar reputation in almost every other community.
 
#95 ·
Meyle HD control arms and ZHP arms aren't the same things in the same way Shell 91 Octane and Chevron 91 Octane aren't the same things. It's moot to mention it. Both ZHP and Meyle HD arms serve the same function and purpose over their intended life expectancy. If both last 100k miles, the user won't notice any difference, especially if that user was blind to what control arms were on the car (think blind taste test)

It's a solid aluminum control arm with solid balljoints on them. There's no play so for its intended life expectancy, both act 100% the same. It's just a metal arm that locates the wheel and allows it to pivot on an identical axis.

The argument could be made that Meyle control arms are superior since they come w/ Meyle HD bushings which are stiffer and longer lasting than the fluid filled bushings the ZHP arms come packaged with.

Dollar for dollar, I'd rather have the ZHP control arms because I know they're BMW-sourced. But unfortunately, the ZHP arms are nearly twice the cost. As Meyle adheres to strict ISO/TUV quality-control standards and I have personal friends that have great experience with them, I lean towards the Meyles. Periodic checks on the lift still show the Meyles to be strong on both my car and my friend's 100k+ mile car. Both cars heavily used in the canyons as well as one autocross session on my car.

A more complex part with moving parts then I would be more inclined towards a BMW part. But remember this is a solid arm with balljoints on either end. Not a wildly complicated part for a reputable suspension parts company.
 
#97 ·
the control arm is only as good as the ball joint it has. So say the control arms are built to OEM specs, they can't deflect much from original designs, they can add material, shape the inside openings differently somewhat but suspension components are strictly controlled before they even finalize the design.

What type of aluminum is used by the OEM is known to them, but Aftermarket with a name brand has to at least meet O.E. specs with material or better.

That being said, now we are down to the control arm ball joints. How good are the Meyle HD all metal ball joints? I am sure there are a few bad apples but considering the design they look like they are at least 100k+ mile ball joints.

I had one of my 1988 nissan 300ZXs go 204k miles on OEM ball joints. So technically ball joints are made to last a long time as long as they are all metal designs. I replaced them with cheapie Mevotech ball joints (also all metal) and they went another 96k miles before getting rid of that car.

If your car is eating up ball joints then you are either too low or have lessened your available suspension travel changing suspension geometry immensely..

from an engineering standpoint the Meyles are the better design.
 
#98 ·
Sooooo......I just read a lot about Meyle and ZHP (Lemoerder) and to avoid Hamburg Technic, what about Febi? My car has ZHP sport performance package, I got 146K out of them. Tomorrow I will know for sure if I need to replace those or not, I have reason to believe they are now shot along with my Power Flex CAB's (approx. 80K on them)

I can get an excellent price on a set of Febi (special deal at really low price), a good price on Meyle or a lot higher price on Lemoerder. Obviously I want to save money or I wouldn't even been thinking this. However, I look at why spend extra money on something unless it is a "Proven Fact" that one is better than the other. From what I have been reading here, there is nothing totally proven except some say feel of one over the other. Obviously I also want to do this once and not ten times. Sounds like the same argument over cold air intakes.....I can feel the 5 hp gain......

Is there any difference in the shapes of the arms, the angles of the bearing mounting, or the materials of the bearings? From descriptions, all three say they use the new improved bearings. Lemoerder and meyle use it looks to be stainless steel post, Febi I'm guessing is some sort of black steel. Febi also has listed the part number as 31122282122/31122282121 which is the same part number as the Lemoerder ones and the same number as realoem. I have like a $75 difference up in price from Febi to Meyle. On Autohausaz, the difference between febi and lemoerder, is about $20 for the rt one and $58 for the lt one (That makes no sense a difference between the left and right prices...but I'm not making that up)

So based on price alone one would conclude the Febi and Lemoerder are approximately the same. They also offer a TRW (which happens to be sold out) so no idea about the price. They used to offer Meyle but no longer do, wonder why, but I think the price was around $200 each.
 
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