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Old 07-14-2017, 07:32 PM   #1
Tazlord
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E46 330i ZHP Won't Start

Hi all,
I originally posted this in Tuning & Tech but I'd like more eyes to see it so I'm posting a link to the original thread here. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=17313562


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Old 07-14-2017, 07:39 PM   #2
mjez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazlord View Post
Hi all,
I originally posted this in Tuning & Tech but I'd like more eyes to see it so I'm posting a link to the original thread here. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=17313562


Mods: delete if needed
Interesting, too bad you're not near by to scan for codes.

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Old 07-14-2017, 08:04 PM   #3
jfoj
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Get a can of starting fluid, pop the air filter box off, give a good 2 second spray of starting fluid into the MAF opening then try to start the engine. If the engine starts and dies, you have a fuel related problem.

While you are poking around, check the fuses in the DME box as well.

If the car has been sitting, it is possible rodents nested on top of the fuel tank and chewed the fuel pump wiring as well, would not be the first time.

The good thing is the Tach is moving while you are cranking the engine as well.

Do you have another key you can try?
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:29 AM   #4
markusmarkus
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Fuel pump time!
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:42 AM   #5
Tazlord
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Originally Posted by mjez View Post
Interesting, too bad you're not near by to scan for codes.

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Which scan tool would you recommend for me to try?
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:45 AM   #6
Tazlord
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Get a can of starting fluid, pop the air filter box off, give a good 2 second spray of starting fluid into the MAF opening then try to start the engine. If the engine starts and dies, you have a fuel related problem.

While you are poking around, check the fuses in the DME box as well.

If the car has been sitting, it is possible rodents nested on top of the fuel tank and chewed the fuel pump wiring as well, would not be the first time.

The good thing is the Tach is moving while you are cranking the engine as well.

Do you have another key you can try?
I will try the starter spray but from what I understand, if the security feature built into the key shuts off the injectors if they key doesn't match the car or loses sync so I'm not sure what this test will prove.

Can you tell me where the DME box is?

I know the fuel pump is supplying fuel and pressure because there is a purge valve on the rail and when I press it not only does plenty of fuel come out but it also has pressure. I haven't tested how much pressure though.

I only have 1 key for the car.
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:46 AM   #7
Tazlord
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Originally Posted by markusmarkus View Post
Fuel pump time!
I've seen this response on many forums. I'm doubtful of it being the problem. See my reply to jfoj as to why.
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:33 AM   #8
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Only 1 key, time to order another key.

While the EWS is supposed to inhibit fuel, spark and the starter, we have seen a lot of flaky keys that crank and the engine will not start. Order a key online to save money or order a key Monday morning from the local dealer and if they are organized you will have the key in 2 days.

For online key orders, see this thread, toward the end, keyfobs are around $156 last I heard.

Just because there is fuel pressure, does not mean the fuel is good and that is it getting send to the cylinder. Contaminated fuel can cause crank, no start conditions. Starting fluid will rule out a fuel problem, the engine could start and run on starting fluid if for some reason the injectors are not being triggered.

Assume you have also checked fuses as well? DME box fuses as well;

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=864780

http://www.justanswer.com/bmw/6654e-...unication.html

http://blog.bavauto.com/5677/bmw-e46...derhood-e-box/

There is a SLIM possibility the engine is flooded, however, there was not much discussion that would lead me to the conclusion the engine is flooded.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1063462

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1069117

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1112112

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1117576

http://blog.bavauto.com/17656/it-hap...king-no-start/

YOu
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:43 PM   #9
mjez
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Originally Posted by Tazlord View Post
Which scan tool would you recommend for me to try?
INPA would be great.

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Old 07-17-2017, 12:09 PM   #10
Tazlord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Only 1 key, time to order another key.

While the EWS is supposed to inhibit fuel, spark and the starter, we have seen a lot of flaky keys that crank and the engine will not start. Order a key online to save money or order a key Monday morning from the local dealer and if they are organized you will have the key in 2 days.

For online key orders, see this thread, toward the end, keyfobs are around $156 last I heard.

Just because there is fuel pressure, does not mean the fuel is good and that is it getting send to the cylinder. Contaminated fuel can cause crank, no start conditions. Starting fluid will rule out a fuel problem, the engine could start and run on starting fluid if for some reason the injectors are not being triggered.

Assume you have also checked fuses as well? DME box fuses as well;

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=864780

http://www.justanswer.com/bmw/6654e-...unication.html

http://blog.bavauto.com/5677/bmw-e46...derhood-e-box/

There is a SLIM possibility the engine is flooded, however, there was not much discussion that would lead me to the conclusion the engine is flooded.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1063462

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1069117

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1112112

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1117576

http://blog.bavauto.com/17656/it-hap...king-no-start/

YOu
So I finally went out and got some starting fluid and the engine will start when I spray the fluid into the air intake hose. However, stepping on the gas pedal does nothing. It's as if the fuel injectors are turned off. I've checked all the fuses in the interior of the car (in the glove box). They are fine. I have yet to check the fuses in the DME. I'm still seeing the two lights (cel and eml) blink 7 times accompanied by 7 relay clicks near the passenger side of the car when I turn the key to the "on" position.

Question:
I've been reading different things online about how the immobilizer works and I've read that a desynced key won't even crank the engine at all. If that's true, then the key might not be my problem?

Last edited by Tazlord; 07-17-2017 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:12 AM   #11
Antti
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Are you sure your fuel pump is running? Measure priming pressure from fuel rail nipple when you turn ignition on.
Here is good video how to measure fuel pressure from E46 6 cylinder engine

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Old 07-18-2017, 06:37 AM   #12
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazlord View Post

Question:
I've been reading different things online about how the immobilizer works and I've read that a desynced key won't even crank the engine at all. If that's true, then the key might not be my problem?
Here's the deal, the key may or may not be the problem. But this is what you need to understand. You only have 1 key at the moment which is a problem anyway. You have no software or tools to diagnose the problem further, even if you were to start to buy software and try to get it loaded and working, this will take you the good part of a week to get the interface and deal with any problems getting things working. Once you get working software, since the problem is very unusual, the software will not likely tell you the key is bad. There may be some EWS related errors, there may not be any EWS related error.

If you take your car somewhere you will have to pay for towing and diagnostics. So for the price and delivery time of a key, this is the fastest and cheapest solution. If you buy software and to tow the car to a shop you need a key anyway, what have gained by screwing around.

Read all you want about how the EWS works, the problem you have is similar to a bad key that will allow the engine to crank, but not start. We have seen this many times. The EWS is not supposed to function this way, but there are often situations where things do not work as designed or expected.

If you do not want to buy a keyfob, get a Valet key, should be around $60 even from the local dealer unless they are full tilt rapist. With a new key, the engine will either start or the systems will be the same. Obtaining and using a different key is actually a diagnostic process in case there is any question trying a different. There is a reason every new car is delivered with at least 2 keys and every vehicle owner should have 2 good working keys. With a BMW or other German model car, every owner should have 2 good working keyfobs.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 07-18-2017 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:17 AM   #13
Tazlord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Here's the deal, the key may or may not be the problem. But this is what you need to understand. You only have 1 key at the moment which is a problem anyway. You have no software or tools to diagnose the problem further, even if you were to start to buy software and try to get it loaded and working, this will take you the good part of a week to get the interface and deal with any problems getting things working. Once you get working software, since the problem is very unusual, the software will not likely tell you the key is bad. There may be some EWS related errors, there may not be any EWS related error.

If you take your car somewhere you will have to pay for towing and diagnostics. So for the price and delivery time of a key, this is the fastest and cheapest solution. If you buy software and to tow the car to a shop you need a key anyway, what have gained by screwing around.

Read all you want about how the EWS works, the problem you have is similar to a bad key that will allow the engine to crank, but not start. We have seen this many times. The EWS is not supposed to function this way, but there are often situations where things do not work as designed or expected.

If you do not want to buy a keyfob, get a Valet key, should be around $60 even from the local dealer unless they are full tilt rapist. With a new key, the engine will either start or the systems will be the same. Obtaining and using a different key is actually a diagnostic process in case there is any question trying a different. There is a reason every new car is delivered with at least 2 keys and every vehicle owner should have 2 good working keys. With a BMW or other German model car, every owner should have 2 good working keyfobs.
Thanks for all the info. Although, I think you mean I'll have 1 key since my key obviously doesn't work. Which really sucks because I'd hate to have to buy 2 keys.
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:44 AM   #14
Alex323Ci
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agreed, check the key.
I think PA Soft allows one to check the key status, but could have misread the page on live data when coming across that recently.
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:55 AM   #15
Alex323Ci
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Originally Posted by Tazlord View Post
I've seen this response on many forums. I'm doubtful of it being the problem. See my reply to jfoj as to why.
that is recently the most common (although well intentioned) incorrectly perceived part as being faulty when it is actually not the issue.

agreed, this does not sound like your issue.
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CF CSL LIP - NAV- BMWP CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC S/S LINES, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF
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