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Old 06-28-2014, 03:36 PM   #1
CodyGbl
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Exclamation 02 330ci No start with key but remote starts?

Hello there,

Let me start off by saying thank you to anyone that has some idea to fix my mind boggling issue at the moment.

Problem:
About 6 days ago my car stopped allowing me to use the key to start the car. But i can still remote start it and drive all day long.

Trouble Shooting i have done:
I have metered the ignition switch and and i know that the cars starting charging system are fully operational to as i have drove it all this week with no power fade nor sticking starter or having to try to remote start it multiple times. It starts right up every time with the remote start. Now, i know that the remote start has nothing to do with this issue because i installed the system myself as some people might think it was my error but i know it would not cripple the cars starting system because i simply spider-ed it in to the cars starting system. I didn't reroute any starting wires nor added any cut off relays to cut the starter or anything like that. I simply attached the start wire from the Remote start system to the actual output start wire from the immobilizer. From there i have proceeded to look into INPA and see if i could rest the rolling code and Inpa tells me that the reset was successful and that it was good but when i view the Inputs it shows that the DME VIRGINAL is not active, I have no idea to as what this is but all of the other input conditions for starting are satisfied to as the car should start but i have no flipping idea now.

If anyone has any idea i am crying for help right now. I am not stupid i work with wiring and complex aircraft systems everyday but i can not fix this.

Thanks again !
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:46 PM   #2
jdstrickland
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You are making this far more difficult than it is.

Since the car starts and runs well with the remote start, then the car itself is fine and the trouble has to be either the key itself or the antenna ring that's around the key hole. The key has an RFID chip built in. The car asks the key for the secret handshake code that it sent to the key the last time that the key worked, but the key does not have the right code in it so the car assumes a theft attempt and refuses to allow the starter circuit to operate. The symptom set is identical to setting the gear selector off of P or N and then trying to start the car -- everything works properly except that the starter plays dead. If the starter really was dead, then it would not work with the remote start button.

Your next troubleshooting step is to use another key to see if it starts the car. If this fails then you have troubles with the antenna ring.
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:46 PM   #3
jfoj
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Ignition switches are known problems in these cars.

Assume since you have a remote starting system the car, you spoofed the EWS with an additional key taped under the dash hear the ignition switch??

Check out this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1011677
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:49 PM   #4
jdstrickland
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The next step after that is to remove the remote start. Your car has an ignition bypass feature besides the RFID that will prevent starting. You hacked into the stuff that worked good before you came around, and now it doesn't work. This points to the stuff you did -- either you did it poorly or you did it well but it conflicts with what was already there.
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Old 06-28-2014, 04:32 PM   #5
CodyGbl
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IFOI Yes i have I the antenna ring tapped into the bybass on a switch, because i only have one key, nearest dealer is 400miles away.... So the the alarm is the bypass activation. If i recall the car will not even start if the rfid chip is not present because the Immobilizer will not have the right hand shake. In turns the dme will not activate the fuel and spark system till it receives the proper code.idstrickland So i know that is not an issue because the car will still start. So why would it all of a sudden just stop working with the key only? I have had the remote start working well for the past 3 months with no issues at all. I honestly have my money on the ignition switch but i would like to verify that is bad by shooing the lines in the switch first. And IFOI Thanks, any way to test the ignition switch to verify it is bad and nothing else?
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:15 AM   #6
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodyGbl View Post
IFOI Yes i have I the antenna ring tapped into the bybass on a switch, because i only have one key, nearest dealer is 400miles away.... So the the alarm is the bypass activation. If i recall the car will not even start if the rfid chip is not present because the Immobilizer will not have the right hand shake. In turns the dme will not activate the fuel and spark system till it receives the proper code.idstrickland So i know that is not an issue because the car will still start. So why would it all of a sudden just stop working with the key only? I have had the remote start working well for the past 3 months with no issues at all. I honestly have my money on the ignition switch but i would like to verify that is bad by shooing the lines in the switch first. And IFOI Thanks, any way to test the ignition switch to verify it is bad and nothing else?
A bit puzzled on this one.

The EWS is rather sophisticated on these cars and to the best of my knowledge there is not a simple jumper that can defeat the EWS system.

The EWS has a rolling code that needs to match up with the key then the EWS communicates with the DMW via a data link to tell the DME the EWS has seen and accepted an approved key.

So you have something very interesting here or I have missed a simple over ride feature of the EWS??
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:14 AM   #7
jdstrickland
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If the car runs from the remote but not from the key, then the difference is the key, and not anything on the car, per se.

You do not have trouble with anything that is based on the car-- no fuel pump issues, no clutch or neutral safety switch problems, no starter trouble, nothing like that. All of your issues are rooted in the key, the antena ring, or the manner is which you have installed the non-standard starting device.

Your car _thinks_ that somebody is trying to steal it, so it is refusing to start. You have butchered the wire harness in such a way that the factory means of starting the car does not work, but the aftermarket stuff you hacked in still works.
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:46 AM   #8
jfoj
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But the question is HOW does the remote starter get the car to start?

Did the OP somehow override the fuel pump, injector and cranking circuit or is the DME enabling these issues as it should?? There is no simple way to spoof the DME as it need a digital word or authentication from my recollection, not just some high or low level static Voltage.

Regardless of what has been done to the car with the remote starter, the OP may just have a bad key??

Simple enough, he claims he is 400 miles from the closest dealer, then order one from the online suppliers, distance it not an issue at this point.

If the car is an earlier model that offers the plastic Service key, suggest he buys one of these and take it next the ignition switch.

OP should read this and see if any of the online sources are still offer keys - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1008294

Personally I could care less if the OP has a remote starting system and that his key does not start the car, I am more interested in HOW the remote start system is spoofing or enabling the DME and/or the engine to start and run.

An answer to this question may better help understand how the key does not work.

The OP should also go to www.bmwgm5.com for more transponder/EWS info.

No idea if this key has ever been cut open either?

http://www.bmwgm5.com/kf_wos.htm
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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