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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 01-26-2015, 11:04 PM   #1
Mbojo911
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Need help with surging RPM's when cold!

I have an '00 328Ci and my RPMs keep surging (eventually leading to my car stalling) whenever my car isn't warmed up all the way. So basically, if I don't keep the RPMs up, it stalls. But when it's warm, the thing purrs like a kitten and there are no problems.

And so I did the most obvious thing and cleaned out my idle control valve with TB cleaner. It was really gunked up on the inside so I thought it would be fine. NOPE! I put it back in and it helped a tiny bit but I still have the same problems. So then I took it to a repair place that specializes in BMW's and they said that I have no vacuum leaks, my fuel pressure is good, my crankcase pressure is good, and I should just buy a new idle control valve. Long story short, I bought and installed a new idle control valve and i'm still having problems. Tomorrow I'm going to buy MAF cleaner but I doubt that'll do anything. Any other possible culprits? This is stressing me out like crazy!
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:11 PM   #2
mjpgolf1
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VANOS seals need replaced. Very common and your symptoms point to that being the issue. Search and you will find lots of info including DIY instructions. Good luck.
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:20 PM   #3
Mbojo911
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Thanks a lot! I'll look into that!
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Old 01-27-2015, 05:36 AM   #4
jfoj
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It may or may not be related to the VANOS seals.

Before you even consider VANOS seals there are PLENTY of other problems that should be eliminated.

CCV and crankcase air leaks, intake boots, fuel pump and filter, spark plugs and even a leaking power brake booster.

Read the first 2 links below in my signature and also this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1057387

VANOS seals should be the very last item on your to do list.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:05 AM   #5
mjpgolf1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
It may or may not be related to the VANOS seals.



Before you even consider VANOS seals there are PLENTY of other problems that should be eliminated.



CCV and crankcase air leaks, intake boots, fuel pump and filter, spark plugs and even a leaking power brake booster.



Read the first 2 links below in my signature and also this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1057387



VANOS seals should be the very last item on your to do list.

I would usually agree with what you're saying but op stated that the cars ccv is good, no vacuum leaks anywhere, he cleaned his idle control valve and TB, so the next logical thing to do would be to do the vanos seals as they are extremely common.

Op there are tests you can run including unplugging the vanos cylinder on cold start to see if the problem in idle continues. If it doesn't have the idle surge when it's unplugged then the vanos is definitely the culprit. I would bet that if everything else is good as you say it is then it's most definitely time to do the vanos seals, which either way wouldn't hurt to do anyway at this point.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:17 AM   #6
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I see time and time and time again that these cars have had no proper maintenance and as I stated, VANOS seals would be dead last on the list of things to consider.

I call BS on the "crankcase pressure is good". If the car has the original CCV system, it NEEDS to be changed.

I understand the statement that the car has been to a place that specializes in BMW repairs, but regardless of where the car has been taken, what is orignal on this 15 year old car?

DISA, CCV, intake boots, fuel filter, fuel pump, valve cover gasket spark plugs, O2 sensors and so forth. I just seem to run into this every day where I find a car with 150-200k miles that has the original spark plugs and fuel filter and O2 sensors.

The OP can choose to do what he wants, listen to whom he chooses to, but the "BMW 20 Questions" need to be covered IMHO before you worry about things like VANOS seals.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1059972
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:39 AM   #7
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I totally get that a lot of people neglect maintenance on these cars, but I bought this car from a buddy of mine who is also an enthusiast. So spark plugs and fuel filter were all changed 10k ago (he has receipts). Also, the BMW shop I go to is big and very reputable so I trust that their tests are accurate. But I appreciate your help! If the car still idles rough after the VANOS cylinder is unplugged, I'll keep going down your list
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Old 01-27-2015, 09:36 AM   #8
jfoj
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Another good indicator is look at the warm idle Fuel Trim values.

Sometimes they can be a bit misleading, but it is quick and easy of you have an OBDII tool that supports Live/Realtime Data.

Just because there are no codes or lights on does not mean everything is fine under the hood.

Things like the DISA is a very quick and easy check as well.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-27-2015, 01:34 PM   #9
mjpgolf1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
I see time and time and time again that these cars have had no proper maintenance and as I stated, VANOS seals would be dead last on the list of things to consider.



I call BS on the "crankcase pressure is good". If the car has the original CCV system, it NEEDS to be changed.



I understand the statement that the car has been to a place that specializes in BMW repairs, but regardless of where the car has been taken, what is orignal on this 15 year old car?



DISA, CCV, intake boots, fuel filter, fuel pump, valve cover gasket spark plugs, O2 sensors and so forth. I just seem to run into this every day where I find a car with 150-200k miles that has the original spark plugs and fuel filter and O2 sensors.



The OP can choose to do what he wants, listen to whom he chooses to, but the "BMW 20 Questions" need to be covered IMHO before you worry about things like VANOS seals.



http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1059972

I agree that these things should all be checked and if not replaced by now should be. That said even if the issue is something else the vanos seals should be replaced also just for the health of the vehicle along with everything you mentioned above. You are far more educated in the mechanics of the e46 than I so op should absolutely listen to your advice before even considering listening to me. I figured I would at least throw my hat in the ring because I just had the same issue with the same symptoms and the seals cleared it up. I also had already replaced every single piece of plastic and rubber imaginable on my car so it was easier to diagnose knowing everything else was new.

Op just so you know just because your friend replaced spark plugs and a fuel filter 10k miles ago doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of a well maintained e46. I would actually call the car extremely neglected if that's all that's been done. You obviously need to do some research on the car you bought and what's involved in keeping it properly maintained. If all the previous owner did on my car was change spark plugs and fuel filter I would've walked away in a second.
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Old 01-27-2015, 02:55 PM   #10
Tbone8ty
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i need a link for proper obdII scanner that can read fuel trims and temps and all the bmw related soft codes.

where to buy? link?

thanks in advance.
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:56 PM   #11
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbone8ty View Post
i need a link for proper obdII scanner that can read fuel trims and temps and all the bmw related soft codes.

where to buy? link?

thanks in advance.
Depends on what you want in a tool, stand along or something that requires a computer, phone or tablet.

Also need to know what BMW related soft codes are by your definition. If you are referring to P1xxx codes, these are manufactuer specific codes that will trigger the SES/CEL/MIL and any generic OBDII tool will read these.

As for Freeze Frame and Live/Realtime data, most better quality tools will support these features.

Suggest you stay away from most tools sold at parts store and the orange ones!

So tell me what smart phone/tablet platform you run and I can suggest a few options.

As for stand along tools, I like the Launch tools for the price/value/feature set.

CReaderVI - $52.50 and you will have it in a few days http://www.amazon.com/Launch-3010500.../dp/B0050VONTS

You can shop it and find it cheaper but is may come from Asia and take WEEKS to arrive.

CReaderVII+ - $164.00 and you will have it in a few days http://www.amazon.com/Launch-Creader...eywords=crp123

This supports ABS, Anti-Lock brakes, as well as other basic OBDII features

Then the BMW Scanner 1.4.0 is helpful, but is almost useless for DME data and drivability support - http://www.amazon.com/iSaddle-Scanne...+scanner+1.4.0
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:03 PM   #12
Tbone8ty
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i have a Samsung gs3, or i have a win7 64-bit laptop i can use.
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:09 PM   #13
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbone8ty View Post
i have a Samsung gs3, or i have a win7 64-bit laptop i can use.
Android - Use Torque Pro or TouchScan for Android

Use this OBDII to Bluetooth interface - http://www.amazon.com/Version-Blueto...eywords=elm327

NOTE, there WILL BE a learning curve because smart phones have so few hard buttons. I do not like the the fact that you have to set up gauges, but spend 30 minutes playing around with the App and you will find they are very powerful due to the power in the phone.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-27-2015, 05:40 PM   #14
Tbone8ty
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okay cool! thanks!

sorry OP for high jacking your thread

we should all get one!

good luck
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:04 AM   #15
Mbojo911
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I was just stating two common maintenance problems that could lead to my problems, he obviously did a lot more maintenance and I even had my cousin (he's been a BMW enthusiast and dealership mechanic for most of his life) check it out beforehand and he was shocked that it was in such great condition being 15 years old with 190,000 miles. But thanks, I'll definitely take all these things into consideration! Stage II VANOS rebuild kit is shipping now, so I'll have an update once I put that in.
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:06 AM   #16
Mbojo911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie00328I View Post
Don't forget to change the air distribution manifold O-rings when changing your CCV

http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=181514849852



Thanks for the link! Will Do!
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