E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 6 votes, 4.33 average. Display Modes
Old 05-04-2017, 09:07 AM   #41
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,856
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Something is wrong other than a central part like the MAF.

For Bank #2 to have such a high LTFT, there much be a vacuum leak that is only impacting Bank #2. There are 3 vacuum ports on the back, underside of the intake near runner #6 that have caps and hoses, it is not uncommon for these hoses and caps to split and even fall off.

Smoke test will show you the leak in seconds.

If there is clearly no vacuum leak, then there is something going on with the Bank #2 of the engine.

STFT can and do move around a lot depending on the driving conditions. I usually do not focus too hard on STFT unless they are hard fixed above say +15% or higher.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2017, 09:25 AM   #42
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Something is wrong other than a central part like the MAF.



For Bank #2 to have such a high LTFT, there much be a vacuum leak that is only impacting Bank #2. There are 3 vacuum ports on the back, underside of the intake near runner #6 that have caps and hoses, it is not uncommon for these hoses and caps to split and even fall off.



Smoke test will show you the leak in seconds.



If there is clearly no vacuum leak, then there is something going on with the Bank #2 of the engine.



STFT can and do move around a lot depending on the driving conditions. I usually do not focus too hard on STFT unless they are hard fixed above say +15% or higher.


Yea rhat must be the case. LTFT on bank 2 immediately goes to 9.4. I am going to spray some carb cleaner towards the back of the intake manifold to see if can hear any idle changes

There is a rubber plug and a vacuum line that connects on the back side drivers side corner of the intake manifold.

Will have to check that rear portion of the intake manifold


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2017, 09:45 AM   #43
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,856
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Forget carb cleaner or any other sprays. All the air leaks on these engines tend to be from the underside of things and the sprays rarely hit the spot.

Smoke Testing is easy, fast and accurate. Will cost you less than $15 in parts.

See the Smoke Test section in this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Here are some reference threads about the ports on the bottom of the intake:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=intake

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...9&postcount=36

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...53&postcount=2

Intake removal -

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1116990

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=901967

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...6&postcount=19
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2017, 10:04 AM   #44
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
But if there was a leak in one of those three rear ports, wouldn't that affect both bank 1/2?


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2017, 10:09 AM   #45
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,856
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Quote:
Originally Posted by se93 View Post
But if there was a leak in one of those three rear ports, wouldn't that affect both bank 1/2?
No
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2017, 11:45 AM   #46
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
I am also going to check the vacuum line from fuel pressure regulator to fuel filter

I have not looked at that area since last fuel filter change (30K)


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2017, 12:26 PM   #47
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,856
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Hose to the FPR has little bearing on your problem. As a test, cap off the FPR connection at the F connector and you will see little to any change.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2017, 05:36 PM   #48
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
Hi guys

In my search to resolve the issue with the high LTFT's, with the engine running, i removed the oil cap and noticed very little difference with idle. Engine kept running smoothly with no issues

Is this good or bad in regards to having or not having a vacuum leak?




Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2017, 06:13 PM   #49
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,856
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Quote:
Originally Posted by se93 View Post
Hi guys

In my search to resolve the issue with the high LTFT's, with the engine running, i removed the oil cap and noticed very little difference with idle. Engine kept running smoothly with no issues

Is this good or bad in regards to having or not having a vacuum leak?
So from my experience, while watching the Fuel Trims, removing the oil fill cap at a warm idle on a "good" engine that has a tight crankcase without any air leaks, the STFT will start around +2% or +5% and the STFT will immediately jump up by approximately +20% or slightly more.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2017, 08:27 PM   #50
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
LTFT and MAF - Correct Levels?



Hey guys

I decided to inspect the oil dipstick oring and observing the oring it has several cracks and a few pieces missing . Could this cause such a vacuum leak to elevate LTFT's? Will see what happens when i install the new one tomorrow


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics mobile app
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez

Last edited by se93; 05-05-2017 at 08:39 PM.
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 02:49 PM   #51
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
So from my experience, while watching the Fuel Trims, removing the oil fill cap at a warm idle on a "good" engine that has a tight crankcase without any air leaks, the STFT will start around +2% or +5% and the STFT will immediately jump up by approximately +20% or slightly more.


I got the new o-ring installed with no issues. I did take off the oil cap again with OBD Fusion and STFT started to rise substantially. Got to 21. You can hear the idle decrease somewhat and engine tone slightly changes. But other than that and with the new oil dipstick o-ring LTFT values are still the same.

I did notice upon startup after reinstalling everything, i heard a light bang coming from my cold air intake piping. Did it once

Back to the drawing board






Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics mobile app
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 04:56 PM   #52
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,856
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Best to get Freeze Frame and Logs so it will be move obvious what is going on.

Have you checked the power brake booster out as a source of vacuum leaks?

Section 8 in this link - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 05:01 PM   #53
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Best to get Freeze Frame and Logs so it will be move obvious what is going on.



Have you checked the power brake booster out as a source of vacuum leaks?



Section 8 in this link - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616


No codes as of yet. LTFTB2 went up to 10%

Will take a look at section 8 now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 05:22 PM   #54
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
I have a question regarding the sucking jet pump. If i remove the vacuum hose that connects to the upper air intake boot, ( comes from the sucking het pump) should there be strong vacuum enough to pull your finger onto the opening of the vacuum line?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 05:35 PM   #55
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,856
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Quote:
Originally Posted by se93 View Post
I have a question regarding the sucking jet pump. If i remove the vacuum hose that connects to the upper air intake boot, ( comes from the sucking het pump) should there be strong vacuum enough to pull your finger onto the opening of the vacuum line?
Yes there is vacuum on the sucking jet pump inlet. The sucking jet pump is basically a vacuum amplifier.

Sucking Jet Pump Links

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1061188

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=523763

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=578766

It is actually the power brake booster leaking that can be a vacuum leak that is hard to pinpoint unless you know what to look for.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 05-06-2017 at 05:36 PM.
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 05:45 PM   #56
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Yes there is vacuum on the sucking jet pump inlet. The sucking jet pump is basically a vacuum amplifier.

Sucking Jet Pump Links

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1061188

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=523763

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=578766

It is actually the power brake booster leaking that can be a vacuum leak that is hard to pinpoint unless you know what to look for.


Next time i use the car will be listening carefully for any sounds as indicated above

My car works flawlessly. Solid cold/warm starts, drives good and since installing the lower air boot i have not seen any 1188/1189 codes that previously showed and also to this moment no codes whatsoever

To me, it cannot be the CCV I still have the MAF in mind but would want to test with a known properly working unit to know for sure as this is a pretty pricey part

I may also order a new oil cap just in case




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 06:13 PM   #57
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
I have not checked fuel pressure but for normal maintenance will be replacing the fuel filter next week. You never know as a clogged fuel filter can make it difficult for the fuel pump to do its job.

Thinking out loud here to see if the culprit of this fuel trim issue is finally discovered






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 06:16 PM   #58
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,856
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Fuel pump/filter issues usually cause Bank #1 to be Leaner than Bank #2 due to the fuel entering the rail from the rear of the engine. Yours appears to be opposite of this.

Data would be useful.

How old are the Pre-cat O2 sensors?
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 06:49 PM   #59
se93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 250
My Ride: BMW 328ci AW MTECH2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Fuel pump/filter issues usually cause Bank #1 to be Leaner than Bank #2 due to the fuel entering the rail from the rear of the engine. Yours appears to be opposite of this.



Data would be useful.



How old are the Pre-cat O2 sensors?


My car has 81,218 miles

I have never replaced them since i purchased the car years ago





Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics mobile app
__________________
Regards,
Mark Perez
se93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 06:59 PM   #60
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,856
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Data = OBDII data. Freeze Frame and Logs.

What OBDII tool are you using?

We are spinning our wheels trying to extract data here.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ltft, maf, stft, torque pro

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use