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Old 05-10-2015, 01:11 AM   #1
traxnox
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Question Bank 1&2 are too lean, Any ideas?

Hey guys, sorry about bringing an old thread back to life, But I'm hoping that there're some new information that might help me out. The pictures I'm posting below are actually scanned back to back. If you clear the codes they will come back in maybe an hour or two of driving. I did check for leaks around my DISA, there were none. I just replaced the vacuum line hose thinking that it might of been cracked. And all four O2 sensors are reporting lean. So I'm kind of stumped on this one. And the car is misfiring occasionally. Any ideas of things I can check? We did smoke it looking for vacuum leaks, The only place to smoke came out was around the front half of the valve cover. Not sure if that is supposed to have any ventilation or negative pressure drawing air in. Let me know what you think, thanks.
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Old 05-10-2015, 01:49 AM   #2
forzam
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There shouldnt be any leaks on the valve cover. Fix that and see what happens with the trims. FYI only the two precat O2 sensors affect the fuel trims. The post cat O2 sensors are for emissions monitoring.

Also, I like how you have torque on your nav!

Last edited by forzam; 05-10-2015 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:12 AM   #3
tristero
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Originally Posted by forzam View Post
...

Also, I like how you have torque on your nav!
That is awesome!

Mine doesn't have NAV; is that an Android image installed on the NAV system? Or is this some kind of hardware swap hackery?
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:16 AM   #4
traxnox
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Oh great! Thank you very much for the tip! See I wasn't quite sure, I just replaced the valve cover gasket and didn't really think much of it, had though it was supposed to be like that. It's seeping out around the smaller portion of the cover that had the 1" hose going into it. Btw, where does that hose go to? All I could see is it heads straight down, and it was complete hell trying to get it off haha.
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:20 AM   #5
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That is awesome!

Mine doesn't have NAV; is that an Android image installed on the NAV system? Or is this some kind of hardware swap hackery?
Neither!!! It's a Avin Avant 2, stock replacement head unit that fits better then factory. It has so many features everyone's mind blows when they see it. It also doubles as a Mobile hotspot for passengers. Pretty sweet. And since its android you can put spotify and pandora on it. I love the absolute hell out of that unit
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:26 AM   #6
forzam
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Did you use rtv on the corners of the half moons when replacing the gasket?

The hose goes down to the CCV. It has to be replaced if it hasnt been.

That headunit looks amazing and I am going to have to splurge.
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:29 AM   #7
traxnox
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Originally Posted by forzam View Post
Did you use rtv on the corners of the half moons when replacing the gasket?

The hose goes down to the CCV. It has to be replaced if it hasnt been.

That headunit looks amazing and I am going to have to splurge.
No I didn't know you have to put any sealant on a Gasket! Lol. Do those typical leak, and the hose, why is it important to replace?
And yes, that head unit is expensive as all get out, took a whopping 2 months to get. But well worth the wait!
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:19 AM   #8
jfoj
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You need to read the first 2 links below in my signature.

Need to see Freeze Frame info if the SES/CEL/MIL is on and Fuel Trim values at both warm idle and a steady highway cruise between 45-60 MPH.

Read this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1057387

Make ABSOLUTELY sure the O2 sensor wiring has not been mixed up, read these links:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=27

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=26

Read my "BMW 20 Questions" comments in this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1059972

Check for or be aware of cracked valve covers:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1021219

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...e=2&highlight=

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1053359

Search YouTube for Scotty Smoke Test. Do what Scotty does or build a tester from related video. Remove the oil fill cap and make sure the crankcase fills up with smoke, put the oil fill cap back on and check for leaks around the valve cover, oil fill cap, dipstick tube and CCV hoses. Cracked valve covers are pretty common on the E46 as it ages.

Note that the Scotty Smoke Test method is not so good for smaller air/vacuum leaks or fully filling the engine crankcase, for this you really need a smoke machine that can provide a solid and continuous low pressure smoke stream. So plan on building a smoke tester of you thing you will use if more than once or may have smaller and harder to find leaks.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:38 AM   #9
traxnox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
You need to read the first 2 links below in my signature.

Need to see Freeze Frame info if the SES/CEL/MIL is on and Fuel Trim values at both warm idle and a steady highway cruise between 45-60 MPH.

Read this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1057387

Make ABSOLUTELY sure the O2 sensor wiring has not been mixed up, read these links:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=27

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=26

Read my "BMW 20 Questions" comments in this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1059972

Check for or be aware of cracked valve covers:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1021219

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...e=2&highlight=

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1053359

Search YouTube for Scotty Smoke Test. Do what Scotty does or build a tester from related video. Remove the oil fill cap and make sure the crankcase fills up with smoke, put the oil fill cap back on and check for leaks around the valve cover, oil fill cap, dipstick tube and CCV hoses. Cracked valve covers are pretty common on the E46 as it ages.

Note that the Scotty Smoke Test method is not so good for smaller air/vacuum leaks or fully filling the engine crankcase, for this you really need a smoke machine that can provide a solid and continuous low pressure smoke stream. So plan on building a smoke tester of you thing you will use if more than once or may have smaller and harder to find leaks.
Already smoked it. Used the snap-on one. (Father owns a shop) we have just about everything snap-on offers. Anyways, when I smoked it, smoke did come out of the front of the valve cover. An absolute ton. Didn't really occur to me till just now that unlike American cars, these cars have a negative pressure on the Crank case. Seems odd but makes total sense. I'll have to pull that valve cover off and check. Any good sources to get a new own? Mines brittle as a cheese-it
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:44 AM   #10
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Regarding valve cover gasket, HIGHLY suggest getting a gasket set AND the 15 grommets (A MUST, not sure why they do not include this in the valve cover gasket set) from the dealer or an online dealer. Anything else and you will be sorry IMHO.

As for the valve cover, they are STUPID expensive these days, like over $300 now. I think someone may make an aftermarket one, but not sure I would try it.

Really also need to see Freeze Frame and Fuel Trim data.

Fuel Trim data at both warm idle and steady highway cruise is wise to compare.

www.realoem.com for part numbers and for best parts pricing, use this tool - http://www.bmwpnpc.com/
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 05-10-2015 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:49 AM   #11
traxnox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Regarding valve cover gasket, HIGHLY suggest getting a gasket set AND the 15 grommets (A MUST, not sure why they do not include this in the valve cover gasket set) from the dealer or an online dealer. Anything else and you will be sorry IMHO.

As for the valve cover, they are STUPID expensive these days, like over $300 now. I think someone may make an aftermarket one, but not sure I would try it.

Really also need to see Freeze Frame and Fuel Trim data.

Fuel Trim data at both warm idle and steady highway cruise is wise to compare.

www.realoem.com for part numbers and for best parts pricing, use this tool - http://www.bmwpnpc.com/
What should I be looking for when comparing the fuel trim data?
Also you wouldn't happen to know why out of the blue, the interior lock and hazard buttons just stop working would you? Few weeks ago they both when unresponsive at the same time, really weird. The key fob still works to unlock the doors. Just a pain when you can't just click the button to let someone in
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:54 AM   #12
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traxnox View Post
What should I be looking for when comparing the fuel trim data?
Also you wouldn't happen to know why out of the blue, the interior lock and hazard buttons just stop working would you? Few weeks ago they both when unresponsive at the same time, really weird. The key fob still works to unlock the doors. Just a pain when you can't just click the button to let someone in
Ideal LTFT on these cars is typically between 0% and +2.5-3.0%, pretty much my target for most cars. You want to compare and document both warm idle and steady cruise values as well as mentally average STFT values. This tells a lot about what is going on with the car. If your dad owns a shop, he or someone there should clearly understand this. Freeze Frame data also save me about 10 questions and posts to see what is going on, it is VERY useful and the first thing I look as when there is an SES/CEL/MIL on.

Your console lock button had the guts blow out the back of the switch. VERY common problem around year 10+. Suggest you replace the switch, around $30, or you could glue the back of the switch to repair it.
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Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 05-10-2015 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 05-10-2015, 05:03 AM   #13
traxnox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Ideal LTFT on these cars is typically between 0% and +2.5-3.0%, pretty much my target for most cars. You want to compare and document both warm idle and steady cruise values as well as mentally average STFT values. This tells a lot about what is going on with the car. If your dad owns a shop, he or someone there should clearly understand this.

Your console lock button had the guts blow out the back of the switch. VERY common problem around year 10+. Suggest you replace the switch, around $30, or you could glue the back of the switch to repair it.
Oh thank you very much! I was reading up on the switches but I couldn't understand why both buttons would quit at the same time. But that makes sense. I'll just order a new one. And I'll let my father read what you said about that. He should be able to do that. Long story short, we live in a town of 3,000 people. Very small. There are 3 bmw's in the town. So it's not something he works on. So all these little weird things that go wrong are a pain to figure out. There's actually no mechanic that will even touch imported cars in my town. My father does anything American, Toyota, Nissan and Kia. Because that's 98% of all cars in town. Even subie's there are only 5 I think. Pretty crazy. But thank you very much for your help. I'll try and find that 15 piece set you were talking about, because I know for a fact I didn't get that with the valve cover gasket
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Old 05-10-2015, 05:10 AM   #14
jfoj
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Fuel Trim and Freeze Frame info is not something specific to BMW, this is an OBDII thing. I usually do not tend to sweat it much if the Fuel Trims are between 0% and +3.0% on most cars. Anything over +3%, I start to get concerned and look for reasons the Fuel Trims are high. BMW will trigger Lean codes ones the Fuel Trims reach or exceed +10%. Your shop has nice tools, but regardless of the tool, the person using it needs to understand what typical values are supposed to be.

The 15 grommets are actually VERY important, these are actually want puts the clamp load on the valve cover gasket, not the bolts like most valve cover configurations. Over time the rubber compresses and the grommets can not longer provide the proper clamp load on the valve cover gasket. Also you MUST use a little bit of Permatex Ultra Black around the half moons and the corner joint on the valve cover gasket installation, the rest of the valve cover gasket can be dry.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 05-10-2015 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 05-10-2015, 05:17 AM   #15
traxnox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Fuel Trim and Freeze Frame info is not something specific to BMW, this is an OBDII thing. I usually do not tend to sweat it much if the Fuel Trims are between 0% and +3.0% on most cars. Anything over +3%, I start to get concerned and look for reasons the Fuel Trims are high. BMW will trigger Lean codes ones the Fuel Trims reach or exceed +10%. Your shop has nice tools, but regardless of the tool, the person using it needs to understand what typical values are supposed to be.

The 15 grommets are actually VERY important, these are actually want puts the clamp load on the valve cover gasket, not the bolts like most valve cover configurations. Over time the rubber compresses and the grommets can not longer provide the proper clamp load on the valve cover gasket. Also you MUST use a little bit of Permatex Ultra Black around the half moons and the corner joint on the valve cover gasket installation, the rest of the valve cover gasket can be dry.
I'm going to put money on it that's the problem. I had no idea about that. I just unbolted the valve cover, took out the old gasket and slapped the new one in place, put the bolts back in and started it up.
And that's what I was referring to when I said the little things are a pain, things like that, that you would never know.
I read your post you linked me, could you test the break booster by simply pulling the vac line off it and stuffing the smoker tube in there and see where it comes out? Or is there a valve inside the break booster also?
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Old 05-10-2015, 05:20 AM   #16
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[QUOTE=traxnox;16624688]I'm going to put money on it that's the problem. I had no idea about that. I just unbolted the valve cover, took out the old gasket and slapped the new one in place, put the bolts back in and started it up.
And that's what I was referring to when I said the little things are a pain, things like that, that you would never know.
I read your post you linked me, could you test the break booster by simply pulling the vac line off it and stuffing the smoker tube in there and see where it comes out? Or is there a valve inside the break booster also?[/QUOTE

You could smoke the brake booster buy pulling the input check valve, the trick is you need to look under the dash for leaks with a light.

I usually usually listen for the leaks, but they may start leaking slightly before you can hear them.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 05-10-2015, 05:23 AM   #17
traxnox
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[QUOTE=jfoj;16624689]
Quote:
Originally Posted by traxnox View Post
I'm going to put money on it that's the problem. I had no idea about that. I just unbolted the valve cover, took out the old gasket and slapped the new one in place, put the bolts back in and started it up.
And that's what I was referring to when I said the little things are a pain, things like that, that you would never know.
I read your post you linked me, could you test the break booster by simply pulling the vac line off it and stuffing the smoker tube in there and see where it comes out? Or is there a valve inside the break booster also?[/QUOTE

You could smoke the brake booster buy pulling the input check valve, the trick is you need to look under the dash for leaks with a light.

I usually usually listen for the leaks, but they may start leaking slightly before you can hear them.

Well, it's kind of hard to hear anything under the hood with what ever under there is rattling. Been driving me crazy for 2 months now. Looked 4 times. Can't find anything lose. Going in the shop in a few hours and going to shake the cat to see if a baffle is lose, "if that's something that even happens on these kind of cars"
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Old 05-10-2015, 06:01 AM   #18
jfoj
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You listen for a leaking brake booster from INSIDE the drivers cabin.

Read the link about brake booster leaks I linked.

As for the rattling, the catalytic converters are integrated into the exhaust header. They are before the 2nd O2 sensor.

But you and also palm the exhaust muffler and resonators as well and look for noise inside these as well.

If the car has a manual transmission the dual mass flywheels can rattle and make noise, if an automatic, sometimes a cracked flex plate can be a problem.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:36 PM   #19
traxnox
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So it's definitely the valve cover that is just dumping a ton of air in. I want to get a new valve cover since mine's going to crack soon, but want a metal one. no more plastic. since my car is the pre 9/2002 build date i need to update my coils when i get the m56 cover for it, do you know where i can find a wiring diagram for the m54 & m56 spark plug wires? if I'm not mistaken, the end of the harness has a Different connector then the m54 model. but at the same time, I'm not even sure if the plugs for the coils are wired the same.
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:42 PM   #20
jfoj
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Originally Posted by traxnox View Post
So it's definitely the valve cover that is just dumping a ton of air in. I want to get a new valve cover since mine's going to crack soon, but want a metal one. no more plastic. since my car is the pre 9/2002 build date i need to update my coils when i get the m56 cover for it, do you know where i can find a wiring diagram for the m54 & m56 spark plug wires? if I'm not mistaken, the end of the harness has a Different connector then the m54 model. but at the same time, I'm not even sure if the plugs for the coils are wired the same.
I am not convinced an M54 valve cover is the way to go, I think the CCV will also be impacted a bit. Not sure if there are other issues trying to get an M56 valve cover installed on an M54 engine. Probably not worth the effort.

If the valve cover is not cracked now, I would just sort the valve cover gasket and check the valve cover for cracks.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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